Danbooru

Redefine 'couple' tag and 'hetero' tag suggestion

Posted under General

The current couple wiki says it's used exclusively for heterosexual couples. This is a bad tag name for such a purpose. 2 girls or 2 boys in love with each other aren't less of a couple than a heterosexual couple. Furthermore, we don't have an umbrella tag for all heterosexual depiction like the homosexual tags (yuri and yaoi).

I think we should start using the couple tag for any picture with 2 people in a romantic situation and are mutual, regardless of the participants' gender. The below is my proposal for a more uniform and logical tagging:

  • couple: all mutual couples, regardless of orientation. The advantage is that we would be able to tag couples in which one or both are futanari or newhalf, instead of inventing new tags like 'mutual_futa'. The existing mutual_yuri tag can also be replaced by searching couple yuri.
  • hetero: all male-female depiction, regardless of mutuality. This new tag will be used exactly like yuri or yaoi, except for heterosexuals only. The advantage is that people can use it for blacklisting all images with heterosexual theme (from platonic to sex to rape), just like those who don't like yuri or yaoi can blacklist those. The second advantage is that we can browse images with theme like post #1179456 by searching hetero rating:s -couple.

Please discuss.

Updated

Highly relevant former discussion in forum #77837 and forum #81959. Though it looks like those died before any conclusion was reached.

I think your proposal is a good solution to this, Sal.N. +1.

The only part I'm not sure about is whether hetero is actually necessary, since it is much more common than yuri/yaoi and would be dominant in the couple tag. A tag to find it specifically seems unnecessary.

Toks said:

The only part I'm not sure about is whether hetero is actually necessary, since it is much more common than yuri/yaoi and would be dominant in the couple tag. A tag to find it specifically seems unnecessary.

I think hetero tag is necessary for the reasons I mentioned in the OP: umbrella, blacklisting, and finding romantic images of the heterosexual kind in which the boy and the girl aren't a couple. Currently we don't have any way to find images like post #1179456, whereas if only both of the character were girls, I'd have found them by searching yuri.

Heterosexual pictures are only populous in the form of solo penis or rape and the likes. Platonic straight relationships are actually rarer than yuri (on Danbooru) and harder to find because there's no tag for them. Introducing hetero tag means we can find those now under hetero rating:s.

thebackup said:

I guess you can search for hetero posts by couple -yuri -yaoi and such, but for those at Member level don't have the luxury of searching 3+ tags.

Not being able to search within 2 tags isn't a valid reason to introduce a new tag though (plus not all hetero pics will be couples). Having a reasonable umbrella tag is.

Updated

thebackup said:

Since I'm seeing the implementation of the hetero tag, I think it would be appropriate to create an alias:

straight -> hetero

I think that "straight" is just too general a word to alias to something specific like that. Creating a wiki for it pointing to hetero and warning not to use straight seems more appropriate.

Cyberia-Mix said:

Wtf just happened here. Don't go ahead on something this big without at least jxh approving.

Quoting him from the other thread that Toks linked:

jxh2154 said:

I'm definitely up for changing this. As Flopsy says, "being in a relationship" is completely independent from the genders involved.

That or the tag name needs to be changed to something that explicitly indicates heterosexuality to more obviously contrast it to the tags regarding homosexuality.

What better tag is there to indicate heterosexuality than hetero? And the tagging hierachy is logical now:

- 'Hetero', 'yuri', 'yaoi' are on the same level, simply indicating sexual orientation depicted in the picture.
- 'Couple' tag = mutual exchange of affection. It can be used in combination with all the tags above instead of having 3 different tags just to indicate the couple of each orientation.

Schrobby said:

I think yuri and yaoi alone already indicate a homosexual couple

I don't think so.

Sal.N said:

What better tag is there to indicate heterosexuality than hetero?

Well, none, since it's the norm. Before you argue, let me try to explain.

Some cars only have 3 wheels. We could tag those "3wheeled" or whatever. Fine. Now would you really start to tag every standard car "4wheeled" just because we have "3wheeled"?

Sal.N said:

Schrobby said:

I think yuri and yaoi alone already indicate a homosexual couple

I don't think so.

You conveniently cut ", but adding yuri_couple / yaoi_couple wouldn't hurt." from the quote. I know there's non mutual yuri, those two tags would clarify things quite nicely.

Updated

Schrobby said:

Well, none, since it's the norm. Before you argue, let me try to explain.

Some cars only have 3 wheels. We could tag those "3wheeled" or whatever. Fine. Now would you really start to tag every standard car "4wheeled" just because we have "3wheeled"?

This happens because you're simply thinking hetero tag will replace the old couple tag and thus there could only be hetero, yaoi, yuri, futa, and thus tagging 3 out of 4 should already be enough. Am I correct?

That is not the case. 'Hetero' tag is designated to include all themes from romance to casual sex to rape between opposite genders, in order to search and blacklist. In the OP I already gave an example post where 'hetero' tag could be useful. Another example is when a user want to remove hetero content altogether, he used to have to add '-penis -1boy -2boys etc.' and still can't get all the noise out, especially rating:s noise. Not to mention that query will remove futanari searches as well, a behaviour which he may or may not want. He can do it easily now with -hetero.

I also need to point out that content on Danbooru doesn't simply have relationship/sexual posts. There are more stuff to look at like solo girl, scenery, weapon, comedy... Hetero tag indicates a topic. I fail to see why such an important umbrella tag cannot exist.

You conveniently cut ", but adding yuri_couple / yaoi_couple wouldn't hurt." from the quote. I know there's non mutual yuri, those two tags would clarify things quite nicely.

I'm simply proving your point wrong. I know that you know it is not true, but all the more that means you shouldn't have stated that.

'Yuri_couple'/'yaoi_couple' was what we already did with mutual_yuri/'mutual_yaoi' and had been mentioned as redundant tags in this thread several times.

Updated

I've changed some of the changes you've done, Sal.N, until this is discussed more and/or gets input from an admin.

Additionally I believe the creation of a "hetero" or "straight" tag was shot down awhile ago, as it covers simply way too much to make it a good tag (forum #33954). Much like trying to create a "female" tag.

Sal.N said:

This happens because you're simply thinking hetero tag will replace the old couple tag and thus there could only be hetero, yaoi, yuri, futa, and thus tagging 3 out of 4 should already be enough. Am I correct?

No and yes. No, I don't think hetero replaces couple. Yes, I think tagging hetero is not needed because it's the norm.

That is not the case. 'Hetero' tag is designated to include all themes from romance to rape between opposite genders, in order to search and blacklist. In the OP I already gave an example post where 'hetero' tag could be useful. Another example is when a user want to remove hetero content altogether, he used to have to add '-penis -male -1boy -2boys etc.' and still can't get all the noise out. Not to mention that query will remove futanari searches as well, a behaviour which he may or may not want. He can do it easily now with -hetero.

What about simply searching yuri, yaoi or futanari? For the example confession would do the trick.

I also need to point out that content on Danbooru doesn't simply have relationship/sexual posts. There are more stuff to look at like solo girl, scenery, weapon, comedy... Hetero tag indicate a topic. I fail to see why such an important umbrella tag cannot exist.

I don't say it can't exist, but I think it's not really needed.

I'm simply proving your point wrong. I know that you know it is not true, but all the more that means you shouldn't have stated that.

'Yuri_couple'/'yaoi_couple' was what we already did with mutual_yuri/'mutual_yaoi' and had been mentioned as redundant tags in this thread several times.

I didn't know the mutual_yuri tag indicated a couple, I didn't follow this topic that closely. I thought it simply meant everyone (could be 2, 3 or more people) is into it without any coercion. This would also explain the redundancy, since yuri and the absence of some sort of tagged force indicates the same.

Be as it might, yuri_couple would be a self explaining tag, sure better than the more ambiguous mutual_yuri, same for yaoi.

Schrobby said:
No and yes. No, I don't think hetero replaces couple. Yes, I think tagging hetero is not needed because it's the norm.

What about simply searching yuri, yaoi or futanari? For the example confession would do the trick.

Once again you're assuming everyone wants to search for a specific relationship content. Maybe the example with yaoi will be easier to imagine for you: A user don't want to see any kind of yaoi so he put that tag in the blacklist. Then he can browse the site without worrying about anything. Same with yuri. Why shouldn't we have the same ability for hetero?

And no, hetero posts are not the norm as I have pointed out the content of this site is much, much more than just sex and romance.

I normally am cautious about adding tags that are "overwhelming majority of images" classifications, but I think it's warranted here.

So yes, please proceed with tagging hetero, in the equivalent situations where you would tag yuri or yaoi. Sure, we'll never get through the entire backlog of posts but that doesn't have to stop us from going forward.

And couple is henceforth entirely gender neutral.

NWF_Renim said:

I've changed some of the changes you've done, Sal.N, until this is discussed more and/or gets input from an admin.

Additionally I believe the creation of a "hetero" or "straight" tag was shot down awhile ago, as it covers simply way too much to make it a good tag (forum #33954). Much like trying to create a "female" tag.

Now that jxh2154 gave a direct answer, what change did you revert if I may know?

And in the process of populating hetero tag, I can confirm it's not as many as people think. Nowhere near the level of solo or 1girl for sure.

Sal.N said:

Now that jxh2154 gave a direct answer, what change did you revert if I may know?

And in the process of populating hetero tag, I can confirm it's not as many as people think. Nowhere near the level of solo or 1girl for sure.

I've changed them mostly back. The changes were on the yuri, yaoi, and couple wikis.

If even just half the images under the sex tag (even after removing the futa, yaoi, yuri, etc tags) are hetero, then that is another 12,546 images left to go.

Updated

NWF_Renim said:
I've changed them mostly back.

Thank you.

If even just half the images under the sex tag (even after removing the futa, yaoi, yuri, etc tags) are hetero, then that is another 12,546 images left to go.

Counting also fellatio, paizuri, safe romance CGs, safe romance from popular series (Fate, Oreimo,...) etc. , my current estimation for hetero tag is 70k, so 55k more to go.

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