Danbooru

Tag suggestion: split pokemon_rse and pokemon_dppt into separate tags

Posted under Tags

I fear there's some inconsistency in the way we handle some closely related Pokémon games:

RS and Emerald
> pokemon_rse lumps them all together.
> There are haruka_(pokemon_emerald) and yuuki_(pokemon_emerald) for Emerald.
> There are no equivalent tags for RS. No such thing as say, haruka_(pokemon_rs) and yuuki_(pokemon_rs).

DP and Platinum
> pokemon_dppt lumps them all together.
> There's no obvious way to distinguish those. You are out of luck if you want to see say, only Platinum posts.
> Case in point: post #655882 is both versions of Hikari.

BW and BW2
> pokemon_bw and pokemon_bw2 are separate.
> We seem to have an unspoken rule that bw is the default tag, we basically use bw2 for whatever can't be found in bw in the first place. For example, Fuuro appears in both BW and BW2 with the same look. Almost all posts with her are tagged pokemon_bw, not pokemon_bw2.

SM and USUM
> pokemon_sm and pokemon_usum are separate.
> We seem to have the same unspoken rule as above. For example, Suiren appears in both SM and USUM with the same look. Almost all posts with her are tagged pokemon_sm, not pokemon_usum (not counting anime posts).

If possible, I'd like all these items (RS/E; DP/Pt; BW/BW2; SM/USUM) to work in the same way. For tagging purposes, it seems important that all of these pairs have some character and design differences while they share a lot of characters and designs.

For this reason, I suggest splitting these tags:

> delete pokemon_rse, use pokemon_rs and pokemon_emerald (or pokemon_e?)
> delete pokemon_dppt, use pokemon_dp and pokemon_platinum (or pokemon_pt?)

We may then delete haruka_(pokemon_emerald) and yuuki_(pokemon_emerald) as unneded.

(To put it another way, if we really wanted to keep pokemon_rse and pokemon_dppt together this way, then a case could be made that pokemon_bw and pokemon_bw2 should be merged into a single tag and that pokemon_sm and pokemon_usum should be merged into a single tag too.)

By the way, my opinion about pokemon_rgby and pokemon_gsc is this: based on the current posts, these two tags look fine and may be kept unchanged. Splitting then into RG/B/Y and between GS/C would not be a great help in finding posts with different characters or designs. For example, a separate tag pokemon_crystal is unneeded, because it would basically just serve the purpose of finding posts with the female protagonist Crystal and/or the NPC Minaki (Eusine).

Any thoughts?

Updated

your last paragraph sums up the actual problem: difference between the initial generation games and the expansion or revision games that come later usually comes down to an outfit and character or two. it would make more sense to just add the outfit tag or whatever, rather than work around it at the copyright level.

Rampardos said:

it would make more sense to just add the outfit tag or whatever, rather than work around it at the copyright level.

@Rampardos: That could work, though that's not my first option. That's different from my original idea above but I'm fine with talking about other possibilities and implementing different ideas.

Three questions:

1- Suppose we keep pokemon_rse and pokemon_dppt unchanged. Do these tags below look good or would you change anything?

2- Again, suppose we keep pokemon_rse and pokemon_dppt unchanged. As far as characters and designs go, BW and BW2 are pretty similar as well, don't you think? Maybe we should merge pokemon_bw and pokemon_bw2 into pokemon_bwbw2 or something? (or maybe this one is clearer, with the addition of another 2: pokemon_bwb2w2)

Based on the pattern above, we could use these tags for the characters/designs that do change:

3- Again, suppose we keep pokemon_rse and pokemon_dppt unchanged. As far as characters and designs go, SM and USUM are pretty similar as well, don't you think? Maybe we should merge pokemon_sm and pokemon_usum into pokemon_smusum or something?

Based on the pattern above, we could use these tags for the characters/designs that do change:

im not convinced theres any issue with the copyright names as they are. it seems like the consistency thing is your issue, even though you admit to being arbitrary yourself with with gen 1 and 2.

adding a new hikari tag just makes sense since she's 99% of the pokemon_dppt content on the site.

Rampardos said:

im not convinced theres any issue with the copyright names as they are.

Six years ago, in the page 2 of topic #7747, someone asked this:
"Now that Pokémon Black and White 2 have been announced, should there be a seperate tag for them (pokemon_bw2), or should they be tagged pokemon_bw?"

You replied this:
"No point in making that call just yet, too early to know what kind of new content there will be."

Enough time passed since then. Don't you agree that pokemon_bw and pokemon_bw2 have largely the same content as far as characters and design go? As per that quoted question, we might as well merge BW and BW2 into just pokemon_bw.

Then create at least cheren_(pokemon_bw2), kamitsure_(pokemon_bw2) and iris_(pokemon_bw2).

This is because what you said above applies to BW and BW2 too: "difference between the initial generation games and the expansion or revision games that come later usually comes down to an outfit and character or two. it would make more sense to just add the outfit tag or whatever, rather than work around it at the copyright level."

after doing a little searching, i dont think there actually needs to be a new hikari tag. the picture you mentioned is the only one where there's conflict, and there aren't actually that many platinum hikari images. hikari + coat is fine.

if you discover an actual issue with how these tags are being used, it will be worth the time to figure out some kind of solution, but for right now its just conflicting with your own personal preference.

Danielx21 said:

This is because what you said above applies to BW and BW2 too: "difference between the initial generation games and the expansion or revision games that come later usually comes down to an outfit and character or two. it would make more sense to just add the outfit tag or whatever, rather than work around it at the copyright level."

Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 take place two years after the events of Pokémon Black and White. To me, it's enough to warrant separate tags for both.

Pokémon Emerald and Pokémon Platinum are just the original games, but with a makeover and more bells and whistles. It makes sense to keep them together.

Alright, I guess I can't argue with numbers. Since two people prefer to keep the tags as they are, I can accept it even though I disagree with some of the ideas presented.

AngryZapdos said:

Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 take place two years after the events of Pokémon Black and White. To me, it's enough to warrant separate tags for both.

Pokémon Emerald and Pokémon Platinum are just the original games, but with a makeover and more bells and whistles. It makes sense to keep them together.

Maybe it's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, it's not important that the second game takes place two years after the first. As I said, the character designs and characters themselves are still mostly the same.

If we applied that reasoning as you worded it on all games, it sounds like we should also merge pokemon_rgby with pokemon_frlg; merge pokemon_gsc with pokemon_hgss; and merge pokemon_rse with pokemon_oras. The possibility of this merger was discussed in topic #7747 six years ago (before ORAS existed).

(The argument using your words would be as follows: Pokémon FRLG, HGSS and ORAS are just the original games, but with a makeover and more bells and whistles. It makes sense to keep them together [with RGBY, GSC, and RSE, respectively].)

To be clear, I don't want to merge these games, I'm just commenting on your argument.

Rampardos said:

right now its just conflicting with your own personal preference.

To be precise, you and I helped to design the current system and I used to think it was completely good.

I still like and mostly endorse this system, but maybe I changed my mind concerning the games discussed. Anyway BW2 and USUM had not been released yet.

Updated

Update:

@Hillside_Moose, @Rampardos, @AngryZapdos -- I added coat to all the applicable Pokémon Platinum posts I found. See the searches below. I filled most of these pages in the last 24 hours. (except I didn't bother to add coat to deleted posts)

> pokemon_dppt coat
>> hikari_(pokemon) coat
>> kouki_(pokemon) coat

But I'm not convinced this will always work.

> In some posts, the Pokémon Platinum outfit can't always be visibly recognized as a coat: post #675667 (?), post #672399, post #1152245, post #620101, post #589653 (?), post #408033 (?), post #620100, post #822432, post #694641, post #722553 (?), post #672399.
> See post #1108086, the characters are wearing adapted costumes. Hikari's outfit is based on what she wears in Pokémon Platinum, but it's not a coat.

Here's a different idea not yet discussed:

Why don't we create pokemon_emerald and pokemon_platinum as copyright tags and otherwise leave the game tags as they are?

This way, an image like post #3123410 (Haruka dressed in Emerald costume) would get tagged pokemon_emerald, but also pokemon_rse like before. And an image like post #3060230 (Hikari dressed in Platinum costume) would get tagged pokemon_platinum, but also pokemon_dppt like before.

Naturally, if we did this, we could get rid of haruka_(pokemon_emerald) and yuuki_(pokemon_emerald).

Edit: Added post #672399 in the list of examples.

Updated

Danielx21 said:

Why don't we create pokemon_emerald and pokemon_platinum as copyright tags and otherwise leave the game tags as they are?

This way, an image like post #3123410 (Haruka dressed in Emerald costume) would get tagged pokemon_emerald, but also pokemon_rse like before. And an image like post #3060230 (Hikari dressed in Platinum costume) would get tagged pokemon_platinum, but also pokemon_dppt like before.

Naturally, if we did this, we could get rid of haruka_(pokemon_emerald) and yuuki_(pokemon_emerald).

OK, some different ideas have been discussed here. But as of now, no one replied to my last idea given. Any +1 or -1 about it?

If no one objects, in a few days I'll create a request to make pokemon_emerald and pokemon_platinum work as separate tags, while keeping pokemon_rse and pokemon_dppt as before.

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