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not all demon girls are succubi

Posted under Tags

BUR #10096 has been rejected.

remove alias succubus -> demon_girl
create implication succubus -> demon_girl

(usually) all succubi are demon girls but not all demon girls are succubi.

1. Clothing. Succubi usually wear as little clothing as possible and what little clothing they do wear usually has a distinctly (for lack of a better word) slutty appearance, which the clothes of a non-succubus demon girl usually lack.
2.1. Wings position. Wings on a succubus are frequently placed at the lower back or hips (as opposed to the shoulders), where as on a non-succubus demon girl placing the wings at the lower back or hips is not very uncommon.
2.2. Wings style. The wings of a succubus are almost always bat-style wings, on a demon girl it is equally likely that the wings are a feathered-style, a bat-style, or missing. A succubus may also be missing her wings but this is quite uncommon (but not as uncommon an a succubus having feathered-style wings).
2.3. Head wings. A succubus may have head wings instead of (but usually not alongside) horns. Head wings are almost never seen on non-succubi demon girls.
3.1. Heart iconography. Heart iconography almost always accompanies succubi, especially in anime-style art, unless they are in a negative mood. But heart iconography will usually not accompany non-succubi demon girls unless they are in love, or are extremely happy or horny. Especially applies to floating hearts.
3.2. Pubic tattoos. Pubic tattoos (which almost always have heat iconography) are very common on succubi, but will almost never appear on non-succubus demon girls except under specific conditions. (specifying these conditions is currently not necessary)
3.3. Tail hearts. Succubi tails often end in an upside-down heart, were as a non-succubus demon girl's will often end in an arrowhead shape. But it isn't super uncommon for a succubus' tail to end in an arrowhead shape, or for a demon girl's to end in a heart shape. or for either to have a completely different shape.
4.1. Bat iconography. After hearts, bats are the next most common iconography to accompany succubi, and almost never accompany non-succubi demon girls.
4.2. Pubic tattoos (again). Pubic tattoos often incorporate (sometimes subtle) bat-wing iconography.
4.3. Tail bat-wings. A small "bat-wings" design is another thing you may see on the end of a succubus' tail.
5. Aphrodisiac and mind-control magic. Succubi can often use magic to induce an aphrodisiac or mind-control effect. While you may sometimes to a non-succubus demon girl use mind-control magic you will essentially never a non succubus demon induce an aphrodisiac effect, at least not solely by their own power.
6.1. Behavior. You can often tell that a succubus is a succubus and not some other demon girl by how they act. This sometimes goes hand-in-hand with dialogue. (i don't know to explain this one any way other than how I just did)
6.2. Dialogue. Succubi often say things that a non-succubus would not say. (I don't know how else to explain this one either)
6.3. Horny. Succubi are often horny. (do I need to say more? (alright I'll say a bit more, they might be in a position that suggests, or verbally suggest, or even outright say that they want to have sex, or they might just have a horny expression on their face)

Did I get everything?

And here are some example images:
1. post #5323309 post #5323513 post #5323359 post #5323360 post #5303755 post #5303744 post #5304493 post #5304494 post #5305681 post #5310824 post #5310826 post #5310827 post #5314048 post #5317096 post #5320727 post #5318981 post #5318982 post #5323078 post #5323079 post #5161722 post #5161723
2.1. post #5323078 post #5323079 post #5161722 post #5161723 post #5323513 post #5323359 post #5323360 post #5310991
2.2. (skipping this)
2.3. post #5304493 post #5304494 post #5305681 post #5320727 post #5318981 post #5318982 post #5317096
3.1. post #5323078 post #5323079 post #5323513 post #5323359 post #5323360 post #5304493 post #5304494 post #5310991 post #5317096 post #5310824 post #5310826 post #5310827
3.2. post #5303744 post #5323078 post #5323079 post #5161722 post #5161723 post #5304493 post #5304494 post #5305681 post #5320727 post #5318981 post #5318982 post #5314048 post #5310826 post #5310827
3.3. post #5303755 post #5303744 post #5304493 post #5304494 post #5305681 post #5320727 post #5310824 post #5310826 post #5310827
4.1. post #5304493 post #5304494 post #5317096 post #5310824 post #5310826 post #5310827
4.2. post #5303744 post #5305681 post #5320727 post #5318981 post #5318982
4.3. post #5310991
5. post #4845434 post #4598616 (it was annoying to find these)
6.1. post #5303755 post #5323309 post #5323078 post #5323079 post #5161722 post #5161723 post #5323513 post #5323359 post #5323360 post #5305681 post #5320727 post #5318981 post #5318982 post #5314048 post #5317096 post #5319778
6.2. post #5318981 post #5319778 (it was also annoying to find this one)
6.3. post #5303755 post #5323309 post #5323078 post #5323079 post #5161722 post #5161723 post #5323513 post #5323359 post #5323360 post #5318981 post #5318982 post #5314048 post #5319778

{oof, updating this took like ~5โ€”~5.5 hours}

Updated

Does that alias not exactly match your point? Succubus is aliased to demon girl, not the other way around. And the alias exists because succubus is visually indistinguishable from a demon girl that isn't a succubus, and as a separate tag it's subject to useless "canon tagging".

iridescent_slime said:

Please explain the difference so that we can tag them accordingly.

Remember, there must be a visual distinction between them. We aren't going to waste our time maintaining two separate tags for things that look exactly the same.

well specifically a succubus is a sex demon. But I hardly think it's worth giving it a separate tag for

blindVigil said:

Does that alias not exactly match your point?

No. By having one entirely contained by the other with no distinction or subcategorization you are saying that they are equal, but they are not.

blindVigil said:

Succubus is aliased to demon girl, not the other way around.

I'm aware of that.

blindVigil said:

succubus is visually indistinguishable from a demon girl that isn't a succubus

That's where you're wrong. If that were the case we would just have "demon girls" and "sex-crazed demon girls".

And what the heck is "canon tagging"

Updated

Canon tagging is tagging based on what you know beforehand about the characters or the picture itself and not based on what you see in the image, which defeats the purpose of the searching system, because users search for a tag so they can see it directly, not see an image in which the tag is implied because of the character's lore or anything.

Hyozen said:

Canon tagging is tagging based on what you know beforehand about the characters or the picture itself and not based on what you see in the image, which defeats the purpose of the searching system, because users search for a tag so they can see it directly, not see an image in which the tag is implied because of the character's lore or anything.

I see. Thank you for the explanation.

Since I don't want to spend five hours writing a reply trying to refute every single point and example, I'll keep this brief. None of your points are exclusive to succubi(which you even admit in some of them), some of them aren't valid points(e.g. points 6 and especially point 7), and hundreds of demon girls who are and are not succubi mix and match all of them at the artist's whims. For many of them, it feels like you have one or two specific characters/copyrights in mind(Morrigan Aensland), when there are hundreds of canon succubi that don't have even half of the traits you listed and hundreds of non-succubi that have most of them.

You first have to understand that the rule of thumb when tagging is "tag what you see, not what you know". This means your point number 7 is incorrect because a character "being" something is not enough for it to be a tag (see all the profession tags like priestess which caused trouble because their only use was on characters with that profession but with no real dress code, this is called "canon tagging").
As for the points regarding what succubi look like, blindVigil already mentioned that plenty of succubi lack them and plenty of non-succubi have them. Morrigan is the most famous succubus of all, so almost all others take some design inspiration from her.
That said, I do believe that points 6.1 and 6.2 have at least some weight. There are a few tags that describe how characters are interacting with each other, like confession, so something along those lines could serve as a base for tagging succubi without falling into tagging what we know, but it's still very flimsy and I think it would only leave a handful of posts.

Here's some advice: you don't need to make 3 forum posts in sequence when you can make just one.

Don't mention various different users like this, can't demand their presence just because you updated your BUR (it would be terrible if every user started mentioning everyone in forum posts).

And unfortunately, with 7 meh and 3 negative votes, it seems unlikely it will be approved anyway. This is the reason I also recommend to discuss the concept of the tag first, and preferably reaching a consensus before starting a BUR.

man, nobody is even going to give a damn about those subtle differences and another thing.
-------------------------------------------------
Behavior. You can often tell that a succubus is a succubus and not some other demon girl by how they act. This sometimes goes hand-in-hand with dialogue. (i don't know to explain this one any way other than how I just did)

Dialogue. Succubi often say things that a non-succubus would not say. (I don't know how else to explain this one either)
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something like this if you can't explain it better then don't bother which I'm sorry to say means you've spent five hours on something that was completely meangless.

remember, K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Stupid)

Instead of spending five hours coming up with this stuff you needed to spend that time on thinking on a clear short pitch of why succubus deserves it's own tag and I just don't see it.

and from reading your description. A succubi is just a sexualize demon and all it will take is a seach of: "demon_girls pubic_tattoo and heart_tail" to find what you're looking for

jay19 said:

and from reading your description. A succubi is just a sexualize demon and all it will take is a seach of: "demon_girls pubic_tattoo and heart_tail" to find what you're looking for

Just a bit of an aside: Keep in mind the wiki definition of heart tail. It is not going to apply to most images of succubi (just simply demon tail for the style of tail with a heart-shaped tip).

EB said:

Just a bit of an aside: Keep in mind the wiki definition of heart tail. It is not going to apply to most images of succubi (just simply demon tail for the style of tail with a heart-shaped tip).

Thank you for proving my point. I couldn't even be bothered to read that you had to tell me lol

and I'm a builder. Think the average danbooru user is going to read all that about how to properly tag a succubi vs generic demon girl?

Hell, people couldn't even bothered to tag Topless right! It's topless how do people fail at Topless but the average danbooru user did.

jay19 said:

man, nobody is even going to give a damn about those subtle differences and another thing.

If nobody actually did I wouldn't be here arguing about it.

jay19 said:

A succubi is just a sexualize demon and all it will take is a seach of: "demon_girls pubic_tattoo and heart_tail" to find what you're looking for

Hmm... It sure must be nice having an account above member rank... You seem to have forgotten that visitors and members cannot search more than two tags at a time.
Also, not all succubi have pubic tattoos.

The two tags were aliased because there was no difference in usage between them, and if we undo it any difference is going to be ignored again. You can't just make up your own definition of what a succubus is and expect everyone else to respect it. Are womb tattoos necessary? Do they have to be heart tattoos too? What about the wings, do they have to be speficically bat wings? What if they're mini wings or they're not low wings? What about the horns? What if a character has head wings (like morrigan)? Are they optional or mandatory?

Before the alias, all of these requirements were completely ignored by 99% of the taggers. Sorry, but your best bet is to specifically search for things like womb_tattoo demon_girl rather than trying to have an archetype tag that is always going to be filled with random garbage like post #3389810.

Phantomlurker said:

If nobody actually did I wouldn't be here arguing about it.

Hmm... It sure must be nice having an account above member rank... You seem to have forgotten that visitors and members cannot search more than two tags at a time.
Also, not all succubi have pubic tattoos.

You're right, I should be more understanding. I myself had a nice composite tag too to make a search for something I like easier. But here's the main problem with your tag. It has a lot of exceptions to it.

Sometimes batwings on the lower body, sometimes upper. Sometimes pubic tattoos... sometimes not.

Sometimes this ... but there may be a few exceptions here and there.

All these things are just going to confuse the average user. We want tags to make searches easier but your idea isn't going to make that happen. In fact i see this is just going to cause a lot of mistags.

And that would be worse.

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