Disambiguifying covered_nipples

BUR #16550 has been rejected.

create alias covered_nipples -> covered_erect_nipples

I've seen covered_nipples used on see-through shirts, characters covering their nipples with their hands, conveniently placed hair that censors the nipples, and more. covered_erect_nipples is a much more descriptive, much less ambiguous name that leaves comparatively little doubt about its purpose.

this is a great idea. literally today a similar example was brought up, topic #23814 (that I suspect was created to mirror covered nipples), with the same issues of ambiguity in its name.

Current description for covered_nipple:

Nipples visibly protruding through clothing. Can also apply to clothes that are see-through.

It seems to be understood by some, as applicable to see-through clothing even without any nipples poking through, but merely visible. I think rewording or removing the second sentence might help with those cases. Kind of wondering for cases where it's see-through and covered but not erecting through clothes. I do kind of like how that tag is used for see-through tops, though I think I could achieve the same with other combined tag searches. Not opposing an alias and clean-up.

I don't think this name directly corrects any of these ambiguities except the first. The rest would require reading the wiki to understand, which the average mistagger is already not doing.

feline_lump said:

I don't think this name directly corrects any of these ambiguities except the first. The rest would require reading the wiki to understand, which the average mistagger is already not doing.

There's no way to tell if the nipples are erect if they're fully "covered" by hands, hair etc., so changing the name to covered_erect_nipples would dissuade such mistagging - users are not going to add a tag that mentions "erect nipples" if they can't see any erect nipples.

AngryZapdos said:

There's no way to tell if the nipples are erect if they're fully "covered" by hands, hair etc., so changing the name to covered_erect_nipples would dissuade such mistagging - users are not going to add a tag that mentions "erect nipples" if they can't see any erect nipples.

on one hand I agree and on the other I feel like you're giving too much benefit of the doubt to those people. while that logic would work on some, there will still undoubtedly be others (the worst of the non wiki readers) who will use a tag that sounds even a little in the ballpark of being applicable.

since the issue is people being too lazy to look past the name, why not clothing-covered nipples? not the prettiest of names, I'll admit, but it leaves zero room for misinterpretation and gives us carte blanche to smack mistaggers over the head. no "oh, I thought it meant x". the term "erect" could be thrown in there too I guess, at risk of making it even longer and uglier.

I disagree, I think inexperienced taggers who think "covered nipples" means "covering nipples" are not universally likely to be dissuaded by "covered erect nipples". Inexperienced taggers don't have rules like "tag what you see" memorized.

edit: sniped. "Clothing-covered nipples" is a step in the right direction, if mistags are a concern.

feline_lump said:

I disagree, I think inexperienced taggers who think "covered nipples" means "covering nipples" are not universally likely to be dissuaded by "covered erect nipples".

There's always going to be the occasional bottom-of-the-barrel users who add tags in a way that defies all logic and understanding, who add sources like "goggle images", who rate porn as General. We can't cure stupid, so it's inhibitive to take these users into account, especially since they're the exception rather than the norm.

This alias is for inexperienced contributors of at least average intelligence (aka most of them), who see covered_nipples in a taglist and reasonably assume it's just for "nipples that are covered". The fact that they have to be erect under clothes, towels or other fabrics is essentially just a wiki clause right now, so it's no wonder they use it incorrectly with how ambiguous the current name is.

"Clothing-covered nipples" is a step in the right direction, if mistags are a concern.

Mistags are a concern; this name is easily confused for see-through. It would also dissuade users from using it on towels, bedsheets, and other such fabrics that aren't clothing.

Most of the (properly tagged) stuff under inverted_nipples covered_nipples is not "erect" nipples.

nonamethanks said:

Most of the (properly tagged) stuff under inverted_nipples covered_nipples is not "erect" nipples.

I would not be opposed to the creation of a covered_inverted_nipples tag for them. Inverted nipples don't even make up half a percent of covered_nipples; because it's such a small amount, it makes sense that it should have its own tag. This tiny fraction of posts shouldn't inhibit policy regarding the other 99.9% of covered_nipples posts.

But "covered erect nipples" doesn't solve the main issue of the tag, which is people using it on see-through or on covering nipples. And you're asking for the splitting of inverted nipples too now. It's a lot of work for a change that will fix nothing.

nonamethanks said:

But "covered erect nipples" doesn't solve the main issue of the tag, which is people using it on see-through or on covering nipples. And you're asking for the splitting of inverted nipples too now. It's a lot of work for a change that will fix nothing.

This change vastly reduced the covering nipples mistags when I implemented it on Gelbooru. It won't "fix nothing", but if that's too small of a victory to bother with this alias then so be it. Just don't ask me to fix the covering nipples mistags.

AngryZapdos said:

This change vastly reduced the covering nipples mistags when I implemented it on Gelbooru. It won't "fix nothing", but if that's too small of a victory to bother with this alias then so be it. Just don't ask me to fix the covering nipples mistags.

Gotcha, that would have been much better information to lead with. "I think so/I don't think so" doesn't hold a candle to actual data, after all.

AngryZapdos said:

This change vastly reduced the covering nipples mistags when I implemented it on Gelbooru. It won't "fix nothing", but if that's too small of a victory to bother with this alias then so be it. Just don't ask me to fix the covering nipples mistags.

As someone pointed out on discord, how can you tell that change didn't also make people stop tagging it on posts where it would've applied, because the nipples didn't look sufficiently "erect"? This is all a lot of assumptions to move a 100k posts tag.

BTW I checked on gelbooru for see-through covered_erect_nipples -user:danbooru and there's 3.6k posts in there, and not a small amount of them are completely wrong, like this one or this one, which doesn't exactly give me hope. At a glance there's also a lot of posts in there like this one where the nipples are "covered" and "erect" but not our definition of the tag.

nonamethanks said:

As someone pointed out on discord, how can you tell that change didn't also make people stop tagging it on posts where it would've applied, because the nipples didn't look sufficiently "erect"? This is all a lot of assumptions to move a 100k posts tag.

I'll take a thousand fewer posts in the tag over a thousand more mistags any day of the week.

BTW I checked on gelbooru for see-through covered_erect_nipples -user:danbooru and there's 3.6k posts in there, and not a small amount of them are completely wrong, like this one or this one, which doesn't exactly give me hope. At a glance there's also a lot of posts in there like this one where the nipples are "covered" and "erect" but not our definition of the tag.

The change went into effect about mid-march 2021 (a couple of weeks before Gelbooru's 6000000th post). Unsurprisingly, there's been no movement to fix posts uploaded before the change, so they shouldn't be taken into consideration. And as I previously mentioned, the main effect of said change was not on see-through mistags, but on covering_nipples mistags. The search -user:danbooru ~topless ~nude covered_erect_nipples solo -pasties -towel id:>6000000 has barely a hundred posts, and I haven't gardened it in two years. Before the change we'd get that many mistags every month.

Also, how exactly is the Misty post wrong? The swimsuit is see-through, but her right nipple is still causing a visible protrusion in the fabric.

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