Unimply cleavage from see-through cleavage

BUR #42235 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

remove implication see-through_cleavage -> cleavage

cleavage cutout doesn't imply cleavage because a cleavage cutout can be present on clothing worn by a flat-chested or cross-dressing character, and that same logic applies to a transparent cleavage window, too. Right now I'm trying to tag a post where this exact issue is coming up- either I'll need to let the cleavage tag erroneously be applied, or not tag it with see-through_cleavage, which is problematic.

Why tag see-through cleavage if there's no cleavage? You can just tag see-through clothes or the myriad other tags that imply it, no?

Showing the post you're trying to tag would also work wonders; we're not mind readers.

hasu_no_tokimeki said:

Why tag see-through cleavage if there's no cleavage? You can just tag see-through clothes or the myriad other tags that imply it, no?

Why tag cleavage_cutout if there's no cleavage? The point is that it's exposing the (usually female) character's chest, just because the character is flat-chested doesn't mean that it doesn't have navigational value- and besides, there being a cleavage cutout or see-through cleavage window is a function of the CLOTHES, not the character's own physical attributes. For example, if you're tagging a flat-chested character wearing a Yorha 2B cosplay, you would DEFINITELY still want to tag cleavage_cutout, because that's an iconic feature of that outfit. The bottom line is that there are plenty of people that like flat-chested characters, that like seeing flat chests, etc, and them being able to search for these characters with cleavage cutouts or windows has value, regardless of if the character actually has 'cleavage' or not. This is simply following prior precedent.

EDIT: post at issue is post #9407165

Wyrmmidon said:

Why tag cleavage_cutout if there's no cleavage? The point is that it's exposing the (usually female) character's chest, just because the character is flat-chested doesn't mean that it doesn't have navigational value- and besides, there being a cleavage cutout or see-through cleavage window is a function of the CLOTHES, not the character's own physical attributes. For example, if you're tagging a flat-chested character wearing a Yorha 2B cosplay, you would DEFINITELY still want to tag cleavage_cutout, because that's an iconic feature of that outfit. The bottom line is that there are plenty of people that like flat-chested characters, that like seeing flat chests, etc, and them being able to search for these characters with cleavage cutouts or windows has value, regardless of if the character actually has 'cleavage' or not. This is simply following prior precedent.

EDIT: post at issue is post #9407165

I would say the difference is that cleavage cutout is describing that the outfit has a cutout that would show the cleavage, not whether or not cleavage is actually present. See-through cleavage sounds more like it's describing that you can see cleavage despite it being covered by fabric. It's not called "see-through cleavage window" or something like that.

That's just my take, though.

That feels like pretty tortured logic to me, personally- and besides that, the issue is that there something that needs to be describable/taggable, and the current situation isn't allowing that. Even if what you were saying is true, that just means that the tag as it currently exists is overfly specific, especially compared to literally every other cutout/window-related tag that doesn't imply cleavage. Not to mention that another issue that just occurred to me is that see-through_cleavage ought to be compatible with pectoral_cleavage, yet it literally just isn't- so that's another thing that needs fixing. So maybe this tag needs to be renamed, even?

So maybe this tag needs to be renamed, even?

I won’t say much about implying or unimplying the tag, for the moment being. But this question made me think…

Why is it called see-through cleavage? "See-through" is usually for tags related to clothing which we can see through. Meanwhile, for body parts which can be seen through said clothes, we have covered_* tags. Can we rename it to covered cleavage then?

Unless there’s any historical reason to keep things like this, I’d give a BUR a shot but I don’t know if I should open a new thread or propose it here.

aster1a said:

I won’t say much about implying or unimplying the tag, for the moment being. But this question made me think…

Why is it called see-through cleavage? "See-through" is usually for tags related to clothing which we can see through. Meanwhile, for body parts which can be seen through said clothes, we have covered_* tags. Can we rename it to covered cleavage then?

Unless there’s any historical reason to keep things like this, I’d give a BUR a shot but I don’t know if I should open a new thread or propose it here.

"Covered" for most tags means you can only at most make out the shape of the thing being covered. It's incompatible with "see-through", if you can actually see the thing then it's not "covered".

"Covered cleavage" would then basically describe impossible clothes, rather than the cleavage being visible through transparent clothes.

I'm honestly not sure how we would reconcile that conflict.

blindVigil said:

"Covered" for most tags means you can only at most make out the shape of the thing being covered. It's incompatible with "see-through", if you can actually see the thing then it's not "covered".

Just to be sure, what would (explicit) post #9406815 be? It’s currently tagged as covered nipples since they can be seen through the shirt, but it’s not just the shape… one of them is very clear. Would it simply be nipples? I’ve also seen some mistags out there but this example is one that confuses me. I’m trying to understand the difference since so far I’ve only seen the tags distinguished based on what they are used for (clothing vs body parts).

aster1a said:

Just to be sure, what would (explicit) post #9406815 be? It’s currently tagged as covered nipples since they can be seen through the shirt, but it’s not just the shape… one of them is very clear. Would it simply be nipples? I’ve also seen some mistags out there but this example is one that confuses me. I’m trying to understand the difference since so far I’ve only seen the tags distinguished based on what they are used for (clothing vs body parts).

Covered nipples is just erroneous, in that case- that should be tagged only with see-through_shirt, translucent, and nipples

aster1a said:

Just to be sure, what would (explicit) post #9406815 be? It’s currently tagged as covered nipples since they can be seen through the shirt, but it’s not just the shape… one of them is very clear. Would it simply be nipples? I’ve also seen some mistags out there but this example is one that confuses me. I’m trying to understand the difference since so far I’ve only seen the tags distinguished based on what they are used for (clothing vs body parts).

From the nipples wiki—

This tag should only be used when the nipples themselves are visible. If they are only noticeable through clothing by way of being erect, use covered nipples instead. The only time both can apply is when the clothing is see-through.

So in cases of see-through clothing, the nipples & covered nipples tags aren't mutually exclusive.

aster1a said:

Just to be sure, what would (explicit) post #9406815 be? It’s currently tagged as covered nipples since they can be seen through the shirt, but it’s not just the shape… one of them is very clear. Would it simply be nipples? I’ve also seen some mistags out there but this example is one that confuses me. I’m trying to understand the difference since so far I’ve only seen the tags distinguished based on what they are used for (clothing vs body parts).

It's tagged covered nipples because one of them is covered. The left one is covered by the bikini. We don't have a singular version of the tag. I'm pretty sure the bit in the wiki about being able to see the nipple at all isn't referring to the areola. So that post counts for both.

Ylimegirl said:

From the nipples wiki—

This tag should only be used when the nipples themselves are visible. If they are only noticeable through clothing by way of being erect, use covered nipples instead. The only time both can apply is when the clothing is see-through.

So in cases of see-through clothing, the nipples & covered nipples tags aren't mutually exclusive.

That line is contradicted by the covered nipples and see-through clothes wikis.

covered nipples: Nipples visibly protruding through clothing. Do not tag if you can see the nipples at all, even if faintly.

see-through clothes: Should not be used with covered nipples. If you can see the color of the nipple, it's see-through clothes. If only the outline is visible, it's covered

The bulk update request #42235 (forum #360344) has been approved by @nonamethanks.