[Honkai: Star Rail] Cyrene Tags (Spoilers)

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nonemouse

So, after the latest 3.7 story, we have a bit of a situation with the form tag names for Cyrene (Honkai: Star Rail).

While "Ripples of Past Reverie" was the title in the drip marketing for the playable Cyrene form we currently tag as Cyrene (Ripples Of Past Reverie) (Honkai: Star Rail), in the latest patch this name is used explicitly for the other form of Cyrene - Cyrene (Aedes Elysiae) (Honkai: Star Rail) - including in the name of the BP icon for her - https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Ripples_of_Past_Reverie:_Keeping_Promise_(Profile_Picture).

Now, I think the tag name qualifier "Aedes Elysiae" is probably fine - "Daughter of Aedes Elysiae" is one of the other names the game uses for that form, but "Ripples of Past Reverie" is now pretty confusing since our usage is opposite of the game's usage, and unfortunately there's not an obvious replacement that I know of. So I'm going to toss out a bunch of options for discussion:

Ripples of Past Reverie
Keeping the status quo and not changing anything
Pro: This is the tag name we're used to
Con: Ambiguous and opposite how the name is used in-game

No Tag
We could not tag this form and treat it as the "default" form/costume which is just tagged as Cyrene (Honkai: Star Rail).
Pro: Avoids the issue, simplifies the tag hierarchy for alternate costumes like Cyrene (Nylon Japan) (Honkai: Star Rail)
Con: The playable form is less than half of Cyrene (Honkai: Star Rail), which is usually the point where tagging the default costume/form becomes useful

Ripples Rejoined
This is the name of the event warp for the playable character
Pros: Similar to "Ripples of Past Reverie"; is an unambiguous phrase used in game (but not in story)
Cons: No one actually uses this name; not sure how recognizable it would be

Demiurge
This is a title that is used in story for this form.
Pros: Short; used in story
Cons: Actually a bit of spoiler that this form is the Demiurge, though that may be less important over time

Playable
Pros: This is one of the ways people actually refer to the form
Cons: A bit awkward for implying non-playable alternate costumes

Big
Pros: This is the other primary way I've seen people actually call the form
Cons: Just seems like a weird tag qualifier to me, though I guess it isn't that different than "young".

Regardless of what we pick as the actual tag we may want to consider having cyrene_(playable)_(honkai:_star_rail) and cyrene_(npc)_(honkai:_star_rail) aliases to help discoverability. (And/or cyrene_(big)_(honkai:_star_rail) / cyrene_(small)_(honkai:_star_rail) )

Also regardless of what we pick, there's a question of whether to keep Cyrene (Ripples Of Past Reverie) (Honkai: Star Rail) as an alias to the new name (despite the game's usage), reassigning it as an alias to Cyrene (Aedes Elysiae) (Honkai: Star Rail), or getting rid of it entirely.

Also also kind of related, should Mem (Honkai: Star Rail) imply Cyrene (Honkai: Star Rail)? Mem is another form of Cyrene, though it's visually more distinct and also a spoiler. The precedent of Sam (Honkai: Star Rail) would cut against the implication, but tags like Robin (Robird) (Honkai: Star Rail) and the like are a precedent for one. My inclination is to not imply; but I think it is worth discussing.

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nonemouse

BUR #50740 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create alias cyrene_(ripples_of_past_reverie)_(honkai:_star_rail) -> cyrene_(demiurge)_(honkai:_star_rail)

No one seems to have anything to say, so let's just try this.

I think this is the best of a bunch of mediocre options. It's a bit of a spoiler, but it's used in-game in her kit description (similar to Khaslana which was also treated as a spoiler pre-release), and seems to be the word official material uses the most to refer to this iteration of the character.

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Elysia lover nonemouse Noelle Holiday WRS ArcieA People of the Book CommentaryRequest NeptuneStarPrime
nonemouse

BUR #51403 has been rejected.

create alias cyrene_(ripples_of_past_reverie)_(honkai:_star_rail) -> cyrene_(ripples_rejoined)_(honkai:_star_rail)

Doesn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm for BUR #50740, which makes me doubt it will go through. So I'll throw my second-choice option out there as an alternative. I don't love it because I don't think this phrase is ever used in story but it's unambiguous, non-spoiler, and similar to the current name.

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nonemouse Elysia lover WRS NeptuneStarPrime Noelle Holiday
Elysia lover

After 3.7, the big Cyrene is mainly called Demiurge by the fandom, so I am pretty sure she will be searched for as such a lot more. Ripples of past reveries was always meant to be a temporary name anyway and no one calls her "Ripples Rejoined", so I agree with changing her tag to cyrene_(demiurge)_(honkai:star_rail). We shouldn't be worried about spoilers at this point.

Regardless of what is chosen, the umbrella tag should be kept instead of making big Cyrene the main tag, since both of them are too visually different.

About Mem I know they are the same character, but I don't think it should imply Cyrene since again too visually different, just like Elf Elysia doesn't imply Elysia

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WRS

Hoyoverse stories are all told from the perspective of an unreliable narrator so it's considerably common to have cases where later correction is given regarding the naming schema of people with shared identities or otherwise. That's what happened here, in addition to not having a good name to use when initially creating the tags.

"Demiurge" is the proper title of what's currently tagged as Cyrene (Ripples of Past Reverie) (Honkai: Star Rail) so that one would be correct to go through - the others are either unclear or not substantial enough in media to be used. The alias can also be removed after a while of existing once people are used to the new tag names and enough time has passed since the story's release.

As for Cyrene (Aedes Elysiae) (Honkai: Star Rail), if we really want a more accurate qualifier, Philia093 would be best to use here. In essence that would allow us to doubly retire both old names and use what they're currently known as. For precedent here regarding Honkai; Herrscher of Sentience is a separate character tag now instead of a qualified Fu Hua as enough time has passed to recognise them as independent people.

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WRS

BUR #51427 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create alias cyrene_(aedes_elysiae)_(honkai:_star_rail) -> cyrene_(philia093)_(honkai:_star_rail)

As above, to parallel moving the name of the other form. Additionally, if we're going to do this, then I hope that the costumes will get accepted as well, most particularly Cyrene (Nylon Japan) (Honkai: Star Rail) which remains one of the most actively drawn official alternate costumes (forum #396610).

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WRS Elysia lover nonemouse NeptuneStarPrime CommentaryRequest ArcieA Noelle Holiday
nonemouse

I think the current "Aedes Elysiae" also works okay as a qualifier for small Cyrene, so I wasn't originally thinking of changing that one. But "Philia093" is probably the closest to an "official name" we'll get, and it's a better match for "Demiurge".

WRS said:

For precedent here regarding Honkai; Herrscher of Sentience is a separate character tag now instead of a qualified Fu Hua as enough time has passed to recognise them as independent people.

I don't know HI3, so I don't know how that situation compares, but in Cyrene's case my understanding is that all of her various forms are ultimately the same person in different stages of a time loop, so for her I think keeping both tags under the same parent Cyrene (Honkai: Star Rail) is justified.

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WRS

Forgive my lack of clarity - bringing that up was more in reference about how a tag with an old name that was "correct" was changed to fit how the circumstances are now, given enough time having passed since the tags' creation. It wasn't to suggest any unimplications, rather to point out that fixing the name of the tags to match current standings is good. Having both aliases accepted means both names are what they really are.

Herrscher of Sentience was originally Fu Hua (Herrscher of Sentience) as in that very person but a dark persona. Unimplication aside, "Fu Hua" was removed from the tag because they are recognised as a separate existence with their own name. So in the case of Cyrene (Honkai: Star Rail), it's updating the tag names to fit what they are actually called after clarification in the story.

Notice how I didn't BUR any unimplications.

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nonemouse

nonamethanks said:

Speaking of this, where does cyrene_(keeping_promise)_(honkai:_star_rail) fit? Should it imply the Philia tag?

Elysia_lover said:

That's a tag for 2 different outfits with the same name for the 2 Cyrenes, so it should imply the base tag.

I would advocate instead splitting the tag into separate tags for Philia093 and Demiurge's outfits. I've been meaning to do that but have been holding off until the naming was settled.

I won't have time to do that myself until next weekend probably, if anyone else wants to take a swing at it.

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WRS

BUR #51699 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication cyrene_(demiurge)_(keeping_promise)_(honkai:_star_rail) -> cyrene_(demiurge)_(honkai:_star_rail)
create implication cyrene_(philia093)_(keeping_promise)_(honkai:_star_rail) -> cyrene_(philia093)_(honkai:_star_rail)
nuke cyrene_(keeping_promise)_(honkai:_star_rail)

Split up here. These tag names are getting ridiculously long though, is there anything we can do about it? Cyrene (Kyrene) was a real life place in ancient Greece and is probably a generic name but none of that is uploaded to Danbooru nor do I ever expect them to rival how many posts are under the one for Honkai: Star Rail. The thing is I don't think we can dequalify them due to the consistency rule.

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WRS ArcieA CommentaryRequest
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