Alternate_* tags for canon changes

Should suzumiya_haruhi_(shoushitsu) pics still have the alternate_costume/alternate_hairstyle tags? They may be alternate for the main series, but not for Shoushitsu. So that tag should cover the costume/hairstyle as well, but about 2/3rds of the pics have alternate_* tags.

I'd be like tagging awakened_miki with alternate_hairstyle, but we don't do that either because the character tag covers the hairstyle.

piespy said:
Should suzumiya_haruhi_(shoushitsu) pics still have the alternate_costume/alternate_hairstyle tags? They may be alternate for the main series, but not for Shoushitsu.

Vanishment is only a small part of the series, though. Special qualified char tag or not, since she has the same look everywhere else...

I really don't know if its worth having the Shoushitsu tags for Haruhi and Yuki. Or even having its own copyright tag for that matter.

I can see it being worthwhile to keep the character or copyright tag but personally I see it as horribly redundant to have both. I'd been meaning to question it formally for a while now.

I started this. This was before the Shoushitsu tag and relevant images were being lost in the shuffle then. Things like Shoushitsu Haruhi's hairstyle or uniform are alternate to the main series, so that's why I chose them, yes. Then I made the Shoushitsu copyright and character tags, making the altnerate usage redundant. While I stopped using them, others continued.

Fencedude said:
I really don't know if its worth having the Shoushitsu tags for Haruhi and Yuki. Or even having its own copyright tag for that matter.

I disagree with removing the copyright tag, not only for convenient usage, but because it's also a separate production, since it's a movie, as well. If I had to choose to keep the copyright or the character tags, it'd be copyright. As for the character tags, they are somewhat redundant and heavy-handed. You could certainly use suzumiya_haruhi_no_shoushitsu and suzumiya_haruhi or nagato_yuki when searching.

In any case, Haruhi came first, as a way to rein in those altnerate tags I initially used for her. Nagato I decided on after some internal debate, but because she's entirely unique character that tags for regular Nagato can't describe, I decided to make the tag.

In any case, they still have some use, although I drew the line at tags for Shoushitsu Koizumi or Ryouko.

They're the two "main" characters and are entirely unique from their regular counterparts, it cuts down on extra tags like the alternate stuff, shortens what you'd have to search for to get images of either directly, and it separates their images from, say, scenes and materials from the movie where only 'regular' Haruhi or Nagato would appear, like post #577907. To me it's not much different than suzumiya_haruhi_(young) as a tag, albeit with the additional suzumiya_haruhi_no_shoushitsu tag making things a little difficult.

RaisingK said:
Vanishment is only a small part of the series, though.

It's as big a part as /railgun is to /index though. And while it's technically not a side story, for spoilerish reasons it's very distinct from the main series and does warrant some tags of its own.

I do agree though that having both character and series tags is a bit much, personally I'd just go with the series tag. And in that case, keeping the alternate_* tags makes sense.

I disagree, Index and Railgun are much more distinct than Shoushitsu is to the rest of Haruhi.

Index is a light novel series, while Railgun is a manga sidestory.

Shoushitsu is the 5th volume of the Haruhi Light Novels, not a distinctly separate copyright of its own.

Would it make it more of a separate copyright to point out that there is the spin off manga Nagato Yuki no Shoushitsu that takes place in the alternative setting laid out by the 5th volume?

I was actually not aware of that.

But as I mentioned, it's a movie, as well, and blah blah. Movies, music videos, and such often have their own tags. Especially when altered looks and personalities occur to the point where they become different interpretations and separate characters altogether. There's really no way to sort out these elements in Shoushitsu from regular Haruhi without some tag to cover them IMO.

[Note that I reserve the right to abandon my duties and stop reading this thread if I think it's going to get spoilery, because I'd rather be banned from Danbooru and eat my own genitals than be spoiled on anything Haruhi related. Sorry.]

UnderneathTheWaves said: But as I mentioned, it's a movie, as well, and blah blah. Movies, music videos, and such often have their own tags.

I see arguments for and against.

Against: If Haruhi simply got a third round of TV anime and Shoushitsu were just one arc among the many others (which was an entirely plausible scenario), separating it as special on the basis of the anime would seem rather less pressing. Taking the lead of the anime, we've always subsumed everything under _yuuutsu anyway.

For: But people were tagging it separately for quite some time before the the movie was announced, so that does imply a perception that it's fairly distinct.

I guess where I come down on it is that I can see Shoushitsu-specific character tags being more defensible than a whole Shoushitsu-specific copyright tag. We don't have sasa_no_ha_rhapsody for suzumiya_haruhi_(young), for example.

But I don't have any particularly strong objection to keeping both, primarily because it's already got over 300 tags and there are distinct visual differences. Keeping the copy: would also allow tagging images that can be identified as Shoushitsu (based on context in the image) but don't have Haruhi or Yuki.

Yes, I know, not the most decisive answer but when I think two alternatives are both perfectly workable I don't go out of my way to pretend that I'm totally on one side or the other.

But the original question was about whether alternate_* tags are needed. My feeling is that if we DO keep the Shoushitsu tags, then no, they probably don't need alternate_* tags.