Tenshi is way too honest about stuff. Sort of how she decided she had to defeat Byakuren in under ten minutes because otherwise Byakuren would be out of power (rather than just delaying her until she couldn't fight anymore).
Well, on an unrelated note. Sakuya is not a tanker, she never meant to be a tanker.
On another unrelated note. Tenko, on the other hand is a damn tank. Not even Sakuya's knives able to penetrate trough her skin armor. She is also durable in a lot of ways.
ithekro said: Tenshi is way too honest about stuff. Sort of how she decided she had to defeat Byakuren in under ten minutes because otherwise Byakuren would be out of power (rather than just delaying her until she couldn't fight anymore).
She's honorable, which is a nice trait in light of a certain pair of immortal cheaters.
again with this "honorable" crap that has cost Byakuren's team the win against Heavenly Sky. Just as a reminder, Shou "honorably" didn't took advantage of Okuu's injuries (and failed at a critical point when she didn't stop Okuu from reducing the damage Byakuren dealt to Tenshi). Sakuya should stop doing the "perfect parry" because it stopped being effective (i.e. the opponent giving Sakuya a real reason to stop using it), not because it's "boring". She should make Tenshi make her stop using it, not shutting down her own resources herself.
Since this is Touhou Tag Dream and not Gensokyo Tag Tournament, and thus sounds more like a test of charisma, style and honor, than a test of how well teams use their abilities, I think that Sakuya's setting up her own defeat, by playing like that. Handicapping herself and not doing her best isn't even honorable at all.
shadowbringer said: again with this "honorable" crap that has cost Byakuren's team the win against Heavenly Sky. Just as a reminder, Shou "honorably" didn't took advantage of Okuu's injuries (and failed at a critical point when she didn't stop Okuu from reducing the damage Byakuren dealt to Tenshi). Sakuya should stop doing the "perfect parry" because it stopped being effective (i.e. the opponent giving Sakuya a real reason to stop using it), not because it's "boring". She should make Tenshi make her stop using it, not shutting down her own resources herself.
Since this is Touhou Tag Dream and not Gensokyo Tag Tournament, and thus sounds more like a test of charisma, style and honor, than a test of how well teams use their abilities, I think that Sakuya's setting up her own defeat, by playing like that. Handicapping herself and not doing her best isn't even honorable at all.
Depends on your definition of winning. People who prides themselves for fairness won't resort to underhanded tactics. Sure, it will cost them the fight but if they win through ways that they don't like, they'll feel like shit and regret it which may cost the next fight if they can't snap out of it. If you want to see a fight between people who only want to win, through any means, then you're reading the wrong comic. And there's also that 'fight with equal footing'. Emerging victorious in this kind of fight will grant the winner the feeling of absolute victory and utter lost for the loser. Which I think is what they want to do in this and Heavenly Sky vs Lotus Tiger fight.
Also if you're going to keep comparing this with Gensokyo Tag Tournament then you're going nowhere. As you can tell, it's a whole different series, don't expect everything that happened there to happen here as well. It's true that in GTT the fights are well done, the characters doing their best with their abilities, and being overall cunning or badass. But what I find lacking is the character themselves. From what I've read, most of them don't really have any reason to join the tournament, they are just there, showing what they can do with their abilities in a fight. So each match is what character(team in this case) A can do with his/her ability to deal with character B and vice versa. Reading it is like reading those vs debates where some of the characters will do anything to win even if it will be OOC, only illustrated. But here in TTD, stripped of their ability(mostly), the characters personality is more prominent, it develops and actually factors in the story, like your example of Shou and what Tenshi is doing here, and that's the charm. Sure, the "honorable" characters might get on your nerves but that's what we call varieties, it'll be boring if everyone is hard-bent on winning. Besides, it's perfect for someone like Shou, Byakuren, and Tenshi, to name a few. This character quirks is what catch many of the readers attention, myself included, and that's what keep us loyal to the series. Of course this doesn't mean that one series is better than the other. Both have it's own charm, flaws and they focus on different thing anyway. It depends on the person tastes which series he/she will enjoy. I like and enjoy both and I'm still waiting for Kiku to continue the series.
I apologize if this offends you in any way. This is just my opinion and I don't want this to turn to a debate. Let's just enjoy the comics.
GTT is more like a battle contest. TTD is pro-wrestling. In pro-wrestling you have scripts and rivalries. Faces and heels. Enemies on stage only...drinking buddies off stage. TTD is slightly less staged that the WWE as what happens in the ring is more or less an actual fight, though with scripted elements, or in the ring rules of engagment between the two teams with the blessings of the chairmen of the tournement.
monhan said: Depends on your definition of winning. People who prides themselves for fairness won't resort to underhanded tactics.
Problem is, that this definition of "underhanded" is arbitrary. In fact, anything that increases your chances of winning is bound to be called cheap. [/playtowin lecture]
also
monhan said: And there's also that 'fight with equal footing'. Emerging victorious in this kind of fight will grant the winner the feeling of absolute victory and utter lost for the loser. Which I think is what they want to do in this and Heavenly Sky vs Lotus Tiger fight.
I see people liking Heavenly Sky a lot, as much as I see people hating the Watatsuki sisters (without realizing that it makes sense for the latter to be able to win against Reimu and the others in SSiB). To me, it's like I'm watching Heavenly Sky using their plot armor (and not their merits) and pressing the "I win" button (no competitive, well-designed game should have one) through their matches. And so I read this comic, hoping that it can't be as badly scripted to have such a "boring invincible hero". (the Watatsuki sisters, at least, had *lots* more experience, hence why I said it made sense in their case)
monhan said: Also if you're going to keep comparing this with Gensokyo Tag Tournament then you're going nowhere. As you can tell, it's a whole different series, don't expect everything that happened there to happen here as well. It's true that in GTT the fights are well done, the characters doing their best with their abilities, and being overall cunning or badass. But what I find lacking is the character themselves. From what I've read, most of them don't really have any reason to join the tournament, they are just there, showing what they can do with their abilities in a fight. So each match is what character(team in this case) A can do with his/her ability to deal with character B and vice versa. Reading it is like reading those vs debates where some of the characters will do anything to win even if it will be OOC, only illustrated.
but seeing how a team (or single competitor) can use his/her virtues and work around his/her flaws, and counter his/her opponent's, is the whole level of fun, which you just missed. Using your knowledge to predict your opponent and finding/creating openings for attacks or countering/escaping/defending, using your intelligence to overcome problems and being rewarded for it, positioning yourself properly, taking many decisions in rapid succession and knowing/choosing the best options available, while also minding about your strategy/tactics/gameplan and analyzing your opponent's and changing your own accordingly.
Ironically, playing against someone else does sound like a debate, depends on how one sees it.
Also, GTT did a good work in showing canon-friendly personalities and having them also affect the fights (the part where Sakuya stalls against Meiling to buy some time, and Yuyuko's deceptiveness, for example). But you know, for a majority of the "fans", canon doesn't exist.
monhan said: Sure, the "honorable" characters might get on your nerves but that's what we call varieties, it'll be boring if everyone is hard-bent on winning. Besides, it's perfect for someone like Shou, Byakuren, and Tenshi, to name a few. This character quirks is what catch many of the readers attention, myself included, and that's what keep us loyal to the series.
it's not boring if they're actually trying to win and exploring the depth of game they're playing (be it spellcard battle or not) and putting their skills to test. While there are some highlights in this series regarding good play, the attitude of self-restraint *is* a limiter. And to me, is no different from an excuse for losing, which no one forced said player from resorting to. (note here, that to me, how one loses a fight -- for example, if he/she played well, had good fundamentals, reactions, but was overpowered by superior strategy/technology, or his/her opponent could stay calmer and win, as opposed to trying to play in a stylish way because he/she believes that's what differentiate good players from bad ones -- is much more important than if said someone does lose.)
Shadow_Da_Hedgie said: Tenshi and Okuu do not plan. They intend to break through with brute force.
"Power is useless without skill and speed." -- Chun Li, to Akuma :D
ithekro said: GTT is more like a battle contest. TTD is pro-wrestling. In pro-wrestling you have scripts and rivalries. Faces and heels. Enemies on stage only...drinking buddies off stage. TTD is slightly less staged that the WWE as what happens in the ring is more or less an actual fight, though with scripted elements, or in the ring rules of engagment between the two teams with the blessings of the chairmen of the tournement.
I think I'm starting to see TTD differently now, due to the nature of pro-wrestling. Don't know if it's a good thing, though.
Heavenly Sky is the remaining moe cute and fun team. The problem being that the other really cute teams had members that weren't a PC, Ultimate, or EX boss... and stage level has corresponded to strength in the series (most obviously by the fact that all teams with a character that wasn't one of those three are out). The secret being Okuu... an Ultimate boss, but with a boke personality more typical of a Propreantepenultimate one.
Plus, Heavenly Sky are the underdogs left in the tournament. There's always love for the underdogs.
understand you guys but... grrr... Suika *coughIaMPcough* is the true underdog out there. (while I agree that PC-98 is even more. SWR follows IaMP as its players moved to Soku, though :D)
shadowbringer said: understand you guys but... grrr... Suika *coughIaMPcough* is the true underdog out there. (while I agree that PC-98 is even more. SWR follows IaMP as its players moved to Soku, though :D)
Isn't that kind of like me saying Tenshi and Suika have the best chances since they're both final bosses of fighting games?
Kernel said: That just means that they cancel out in this fight, which means that stage wise, it comes down to a PC vs an Ultimate boss.
But then Okuu has also been a player character during the fighting games so wouldn't that mean that it comes down to Sakuya being a Stage 5 boss and Okuu being a stage 6 boss.
No. PC is just the player control core group... the five human characters that are accepted as PCs for the standard games. Stage 4 and 5 human characters that really should be considered above the nonhuman stage 4 and 5 characters. Cirno would count more as a PC than Okuu... and it's pretty apparent that she counts at the stage 2 tier in this tournament.
Although the only reason to make the PC distinction is really to accommodate Reimu now. Sakuya and Sanae might just be penultimate level.
Wait, she dodged it!!!I've seen through your ability from the last match.This is the first time Sakuya dodged in this match.We have come up with many strategies to counter that strategy......but we thought that it'd be boring to just focus on that alone.It's kumi waza that I trained together with my partner, Suika.I'm bad at it!Don't Ask What's Already FixedAgain, Tenshi atta-...But if that's what you're best at......I'll just crush that!!Is grappling (groundwork techniques)...
Episode 924: Collision of styles.From the Artist's Pixiv page.I'm best at kumi waza. Kumi waza is a type of style focusing on throwing, chokehold, joint lock, pin, and grappling hold....something you're good at?