BlueFox said: She has no reason to be ashamed. She tried her best and pushed herself beyond her limits.
Oh but she does have a reason.
CybeastGregarX said: Being unable to... and not to advance to the next round for Koa and Suika's sake after realizing that Suika and Koakuma aren't tools and tried to fix things between them will not go well for Sakuya at all
Being unable to do so will make her feel terrible unless either of them or Tenshi comforts her, and for there to be no hard feelings between them and to make Sakuya feel better I hope Tenshi helps comfort her along with Suika and Koakuma.
I have mixed feelings about Sakuya's loss here. I was certain that the Lost Servants were going to get their shit together and become a force able to take on Red 75% in the finals. That, and Dei Shirou seemed to not want to have Tenshi in the tournament in the beginning. So I felt that he created Heavenly Sky to merely buy some time and have some variety to the tournament outside of his original twelve teams.
I'm disappointed that Lost Servants lost, but this is somewhat refreshing now that I think about it. Sure, Sakuya's plans stop here, but now it feels that Dei Shirou is taking a different path for her. The fights will (hopefully) be more exciting to watch without feeling like the whole tournament is fated to end in one specific duel. All of Day 2's fights were dull since none of Day 1's victors lost their fights. It seemed like they were just killing time by weeding out the teams that didn't have much development.
Now all I'm hoping for is the utter defeat of Team Moriya, but there's no need to get into that discussion now. ;)
Congratulations to Utsuho and Tenshi. Things are going to get more interesting from here.
congratulations (at least) to Tenshi, for being able to work around parries, on the first match that has these used against you, even... much unlike <insert arbitrary random percentage> of the people complaining about parries, who shall remain clueless :V
I love the fact that HS won. I think that they a very likeable team. I even hope they'll win. And I can't say that I felt sorry for the LS when they lost, either. They had some pretty wicked things going with them. (Suika gripping Okuu, Sakuya looking down on Tenshi/ forgetting her promise, Suika looking completely evil in 4coma 964, etc.)
But even if HS lost, there would still be sacrifices to be made. For example, Sakuya's broken promise; or if HS were to lose, the only truly "innocent" team would be lost. I'm also sure that ANY team in this series losing would be a kick in the face for specific touhou fans.(I mean, we all have our favs, right?)
That being said, There is a 81.05% chance that HS will lose to Sanae in the next round. I can't see Tenko and Okuu winning this at all. The mains almost always win. Reimu? yup. Sanae? certainly.(I'm still reeling from the Marisa/Nitori incedent. jesus.) But in the small, miniscule 3% chance HS COULD win this(97% chance R/R will win), I HAVE FAITH DAMMIT!....
Dr_Strafe said: I have mixed feelings about Sakuya's loss here. I was certain that the Lost Servants were going to get their shit together and become a force able to take on Red 75% in the finals. That, and Dei Shirou seemed to not want to have Tenshi in the tournament in the beginning. So I felt that he created Heavenly Sky to merely buy some time and have some variety to the tournament outside of his original twelve teams.
I'm disappointed that Lost Servants lost, but this is somewhat refreshing now that I think about it. Sure, Sakuya's plans stop here, but now it feels that Dei Shirou is taking a different path for her. The fights will (hopefully) be more exciting to watch without feeling like the whole tournament is fated to end in one specific duel. All of Day 2's fights were dull since none of Day 1's victors lost their fights. It seemed like they were just killing time by weeding out the teams that didn't have much development.
Now all I'm hoping for is the utter defeat of Team Moriya, but there's no need to get into that discussion now. ;)
Congratulations to Utsuho and Tenshi. Things are going to get more interesting from here.
I think it was more to make an underdog team that got their foot in the door just due to their friends. Not to mention the fact that both Tenshi and the underground got gyped quite intentionally by Yukari.
Team Moriya seems to be more a way of other teams getting development than themselves. Though i must admit Sanae's come along way from being the load. I wouldn't say it's a sure win for Moriya, but I don't think it'll end easily for either.
That and I'm not sure if Sanae could get a miracle against a team with no real teamwork flaws or such.
Part of me suspects Yukari had plans for setting up Reimu as the winner, seeing how she went so far just to get Reimu to join, that and look at the opposition she and Remilia had easy enough to set them up as boring invincible "heroes"
In contrast Heaven Sky is proving themselves to be heroes of a more authentic sort.
This leads me to think this'll end with Yukari getting a lesson in the true essence of Nikkuman.
I can't say that I felt sorry for the LS when they lost, either. They had some pretty wicked things going with them. (Suika gripping Okuu, Sakuya looking down on Tenshi/ forgetting her promise, Suika looking completely evil in 4coma 964, etc.)
But even if HS lost, there would still be sacrifices to be made. For example, Sakuya's broken promise; or if HS were to lose, the only truly "innocent" team would be lost. I'm also sure that ANY team in this series losing would be a kick in the face for specific touhou fans.(I mean, we all have our favs, right?)
That being said, There is a 81.05% chance that HS will lose to Sanae in the next round. I can't see Tenko and Okuu winning this at all. The mains almost always win. Reimu? yup. Sanae? certainly.(I'm still reeling from the Marisa/Nitori incedent. jesus.) But in the small, miniscule 3% chance HS COULD win this(97% chance R/R will win), I HAVE FAITH DAMMIT!....
-X- said: I love the fact that HS won. I think that they a very likeable team.
good for you.
-X- said: And I can't say that I felt sorry for the LS when they lost, either.
the team that attempted to play properly, optimally, and you don't see the beauty of that playstyle? Seems quite common around here.
-X- said: They had some pretty wicked things going with them. (Suika gripping Okuu, Sakuya looking down on Tenshi/ forgetting her promise, Suika looking completely evil in 4coma 964, etc.)
Okuu can grab Suika, but Suika can't grab her? Everything people do against HS is cheap, and everything that HS does to other people is fair?
Sakuya so free (and fragile)
If I mentioned Tenshi attempting to beat Sakuya at her own speciality (like she did against Tenshi -- edit edit: Byakuren), people would call that "likable", instead of pretentious and arrogant. Crazy people...
-X- said: if HS were to lose, the only truly "innocent" team would be lost.
couldn't care less for "innocence" or plot.
-X- said: I'm also sure that ANY team in this series losing would be a kick in the face for specific touhou fans.(I mean, we all have our favs, right?)
it's frustrating to see the one team I don't want to win, winning. It's not only about characters (even though some favs of mine aren't in the tournament), but also about playstyles.
-X- said: That being said, There is a 81.05% chance that HS will lose to Sanae in the next round. I can't see Tenko and Okuu winning this at all. The mains almost always win. Reimu? yup. Sanae? certainly.(I'm still reeling from the Marisa/Nitori incedent. jesus.) But in the small, miniscule 3% chance HS COULD win this(97% chance R/R will win), I HAVE FAITH DAMMIT!....
...I'm done.
what? People keep saying to themselves that HS doesn't have a strong plot armor? I wonder how HS's opponents will strategically choke on the next "fights".
HS is flashy, people *very often* value flashiness over combat pragmatism, and identify themselves with people who can somehow defeat combat pragmatists, even though they realistically shouldn't be able to.
StriderTuna said: I think it was more to make an underdog team that got their foot in the door just due to their friends. Not to mention the fact that both Tenshi and the underground got gyped quite intentionally by Yukari.
Yukari *shouldn't* like Tenshi, I wonder why that seems to be so difficult to understand. People keep demonizing Yukari, even when she's being in-character.
StriderTuna said: That and I'm not sure if Sanae could get a miracle against a team with no real teamwork flaws or such.
I'm more worried because - one team with moe Sanae and combat pragmatist-ish Suwako - one team with two fan-favored characters, in a game where appeal earns plot armor. (unfortunately)
also, HS's teamwork isn't unbreakable, but it depends on the author not setting HS's opponents' AI to lvl 1.
StriderTuna said: Part of me suspects Yukari had plans for setting up Reimu as the winner, seeing how she went so far just to get Reimu to join, that and look at the opposition she and Remilia had easy enough to set them up as boring invincible "heroes"
Yukari supporting her partner Reimu, against Kanako's favored miko, makes sense. Yukari supporting Tenshi at her own volition (trying to take the Hakurei Shrine for herself in SWR, let alone install keystones which could cause greater earthquakes) would totally not make sense.
StriderTuna said: This leads me to think this'll end with Yukari getting a lesson in the true essence of Nikkuman.
I hate it when "moral lessons", or anything "moral", gets the upperhand. Besides what I've mentioned before about the layer of fun that's not attainable by "honorable playstyle", "moral" itself can be defined as following a pre-established idea, instead of formulating your own (which is what "ethics" is for).
Bonus: it's said that - moral and ethics don't sit on the same table - humour can sit on either table, but on moral's, he/it behaves as a representative; on ethic's, he/it behaves as an invited guest.
That's the point people are missing: it's not that Lost Servants was written any more stupid than normal (by which I mean, they weren't stupid). Sakuya is overconfident of her power; she had faltered earlier until she figured out how to use it, and that includes her grapples. Suika is an oni, which makes her confident of her strength and durability.
They knew Heavenly Sky could be a threat, even Suika thought that after absorbing a few punches from Tenshi, and again from a God Chop, but in the end they stuck to denying Heavenly Sky's risk. Suika thought she could take out Okuu's risk by making her expend two God Chops; she got surprised by three, then completely forgot her opponent could shapeshift because they were focused on a strategy of pitting Celestial versus maid. Sakuya and Tenshi ended-up underestimating each other - the latter because she had trouble realizing when she was in over her head, and the former for leaving herself so accessible that a simple flaw in her perfect defense was both detectable and available. At various turns where they could have gone with "we need to take them more seriously," they went back to "this can't be hard" and, when they started getting overwhelmed by HS's tenacity, they jumped to "we'll finish it with this." At one point where Sakuya was even second guessing her regard early in the fight, Suika just fell back on "they're idiots. Funny idiots."
Okuu is the MVP of this fight, because Tenshi continued to play right into Lost Servants' main trap - that, combined, they believed could take her out, and proved that they could - and she would have lost numerous times over had the raven not been there to bail her. She's the only one of four who was taking the other side completely seriously.
agree with a lot of what you said, Suika while truthful to her judgement (as an oni), isn't immune to judgement mistakes. Even if it was part of LS's plan to disable Okuu and combine efforts against Tenshi's armor, Suika and Sakuya didn't really check if Okuu "was really dead" (metaphorically speaking).
Sakuya seemed so focused in getting to Remilia, instead of keeping her focus into the steps needed to get to her, even then, she came with a solid plan (not the only possible one, though) and executed it well; she did her job on the team. She could've used some more thought into alternative plans or more thought on their opponent's abilities and possibilities, though. (they're not much to blame for Okuu birdforming away, since they haven't seen her use it, but many -- myself included -- were screaming "she still has two limbs remaining", what about paying some more attention to Okuu, after that save against Byakuren's drop -- which should require a *lot* of strength to minimize the damage that move did to Tenshi's back)
Agree about Okuu's focus on the fight, think that Suika could've had worse if she took more of the nukes (Sakuya is automatically forbidden to parry these attacks, either her or Okuu would die, maybe even both if Sakuya tries to minimize the effect of her timestop inertia).
Well, everyone, remember how Okuu was defeated in GTT, how power (Okuu) was defeated by battle experience (Mokou)? We'll find out if Suwako's experience will count this time, too. I also wonder (for the sake of curiosity) if the way Reimu's and/or Sanae's (and maybe Patchy's) barriers work would allow Sanae to tank Okuunukes and not take damage and also not reflect damage back, just in case Sanae ever needs to tank them, because I don't expect Sanae to be able to tank a combination attack.
I'm not sure if Sanae could tank a nuke chop perfectly, sure she'd take it much better than someone sans barrier but she'd still feel it some, dunno if Reimu'd do better or not as she hasn't had the same experience as Sanae did (enduring both Yuuka and Flandre in the ring)
As far as the whole power vs experience, This Okuu is brighter than GTT's Okuu (who was over reliant on her raw power). No fool uses power in such a indirect method such as the stomp shown earlier in the match. Though she'd have a challenging time regardless as Suwako can withstand a nukeclop. Not sure if Suwako has an answer to Okuu trying to fly off with her, leaving Tenshi to take on Sanae. (Basically removing the stronger element to allow Tenshi to take on the weaker one)
This leaves the question of if Sanae can actually inflict damage on Tenshi (I don't recall Sanae having particularly damaging strikes in the exhibition)
Steak said: Bottom-line, I don't think that second chop should have connected.
I agree. Suika definitely should have been able to avoid it, and it didn't take her long to miclone herself when she was caught by Yuugi. Dei shirou tried to make obvious that she wasn't expecting it and that Okuu was right on top of her when the follow-up was noticed, though, so we only have his interpretation to base the timing on, despite how unsatisfying it is. At least he was smart to draw Okuu attacking Suika's exposed flank (supporting arm).
Whether or not it should have connected, Suika planned to field her attacks one way or another. Would Okuu think her arm "broken" had it not connected with something? in that context, taking the attacks would probably be smart as, as another comment pointed-out, the known limitation on god chops is purely psychological at this point and keeping that limited is good.
If the next team isn't ready for the possibility of "Reiuji God Headbutt" and like so, I'll start calling shenanigans.
Thinking back to the first comic, "This is the Power of Friendship" quote from the original manga, makes me think the winner will have to be the team that uses their friendship the best in matches.
Red 75%: Reimu and Remilia have become friendlier, but I'm still not sold on Reimu's power of friendship angle, even if Remilia seems to be better than she was at the beginning. They also tend to work alone most of the fights.
The Immortals: (phfft) they hate each other. They employ teamwork but, unless Keine is right and they need each other for their long lifes as friends they are not going to pull of a "this is the power of friendship" move except with extreme bullshit dripping from Kaguya's script.
Moriya: This one I can't quite place correctly. They work well together and are together, but I'm not sure about a "power of friendship" move can be pulled off by Suwako. Sanae, yes, but Suwako? They tend to work alone in the ring.
Heavenly Sky: Atomic Peach Bomber is nearly a "power of friendship" move, if not completely there.
So the primary thought...if the end is to be similar to the very first comic...Heavenly Sky is the closest to that ideal.
Even more trials await for them!Episode 972: The unseizable victory.From the Artist's Pixiv page.Neither of them can stand up!That, too, is understandable considering the match!...however!Without a doubt......I'm pretty much drained from this match.Even so...Even so, had we won......we would've been connected to the next match....wasn't able to connect to that...While I'm supported by so many of my desires......I couldn't live up to them.RegretsHeavenly Sky Combination may be the victors in this match...I...