Wait what? Are the second panel speeches from Kaguya or Tewi? And at least Kaguya knew it was wrong to interfere as well and Sanae what the heck are you talking about?
And Tenshi is showing signs of back damage from the fight in the first panel.
Pretty much it has to be HS and Immortals in the Final. HS are the Good guys and sacrifice for each other while the Immortals are mostly the opposite when push really comes to shove.
Basically
Red 75% vs Immortals
- Remilia is the cause for the loss so the standard lesson can be learned.
HS vs Moryia
- Sanae fights clean and gets accidentally hurt badly (not as dramatic as with Flandre) - Suwako loses it again and goes over the top again on Okuu. - Meiling/Flandre/Sanae show up to remind Suwako it was an accident this time and Suwako she is going way too far.
or
- Suwako fights dirty and gets beat solidly bu clean fighting
Either way a lesson is learned.
HS vs Immortals
- HS continue to fight and risk themselves to help each other nearly losing the match. - The immortals more or less mock HS for this and take advantage of it. - One member of the Immortals gets into a bad position (not a pin/submission) and the other does not help and they fall apart as a team.
HS (Good guys) win and yet another moral is taught.
Hmm even after translation I'm not sure if that is what they actually said or what Tewi was thinking they said. I thought it was the latter at first but not quite sure.
CybeastGregarX said: All of that is just showing your playing favorites for HS, and "good guys"? Yeah right.
CAN YOU PLEASE STOP.
Following wrestling tropes Heaven Sky Combination are the prime Baby Face team, they are optimistic, gung-ho, faithful to each other and have a can-do attitude that never quits.
cd_young said: Following wrestling tropes Heaven Sky Combination are the prime Baby Face team, they are optimistic, gung-ho, faithful to each other and have a can-do attitude that never quits.
NO. THEY. AREN'T.
They are a Heel team and weren't even meant to be in the tournament to begin with originally. They got in illegally via forced negotiations by Satori, black mail from Hijiri and Kanako secretly pulling strings to get them in. That is what a HEEL does, they break the rules.
They are a Heel team and weren't even meant to be in the tournament to begin with originally. They got in illegally via forced negotiations by Satori, black mail from Hijiri and Kanako secretly pulling strings to get them in. That is what a HEEL does, they break the rules.
You overlooked the fact that Tenshi was left out and Okuu was made a fall girl (she was put up to the nuking stunt) for the simple reason Yukari didn't like them. And when Satori tried to gently negotiate, the managers responded by sicing their goons on them. It took Byakuren tossing her weight around just avoid the group getting smacked down.
This in turn caused Yuugi and Orin to basically aim to get Okuu (and Tenshi whom at the time just befriended her) in, even at their expense (which is what happened as they gave up their match for them)
As far as the two themselves in the ring? Clean, working well together, and basically the closest thing to fun personified in a tournament where things are horribly serious business.
Compared to the boring invincible team, a genre savvy pair that only act at the role, and A nice girl and her sometimes vicious ancestor, Heaven Sky leads in face points.
cd_young said: You forget, they beat Lost Servants. whom was Cybeast's favorite team, he probably will argue them Heels till they pay dues to his team.
I'm sure it'll happen as for one, Tenshi and Okuu's victory was well earned. It could be worse; they could have lost like Komachi and Shikieiki did.
StriderTuna said: You overlooked the fact that Tenshi was left out and Okuu was made a fall girl (she was put up to the nuking stunt) for the simple reason Yukari didn't like them.
I can understand why Yukari doesn't like them considering that Tenshi caused a major earthquake out of mere amusement and rebuilt the Hakurei Shrine and building in a keystone in it out of selfishness and Utsuho nearly caused a nuclear disaster and sought to take over Gensokyo and you forget that NO ONE liked Tenshi and I sure don't either, but Yukari gave Okuu a chance during that but when she failed to take out a second team during her nuke stunt she couldn't compete.
StriderTuna said: And when Satori tried to gently negotiate, the managers responded by sicking their goons on them. It took Byakuren tossing her weight around just avoid the group getting smacked down.
Satori wasn't gently negotiating she was forcing negotiations by demanding them to let her in without taking no for an answer and it was Satori who prompt the fight not Yuyuko and Kanako which were the ones who wanted to end things somewhat peacefully and use an alternative and yet were given no choice but to use force.
StriderTuna said: This in turn caused Yuugi and Orin to basically aim to get Okuu and Tenshi in, even at their expense.
Which is a noble thing to do for their friends, I will admit but it will be a shame to not see Orin and Yuugi in the ring again.
StriderTuna said: As far as the two themselves in the ring? Clean, working well together, and basically the closest thing to fun personified in a tournament where things are horribly serious business.
It is not clean if your a tank and a nuclear plane. Tenshi's durability and Okuu's Nuclear powers were an unfair advantage that can just have them win the match instantly. Okuu's god chop and Tenshi's durability had "instant win/death" and "invincibility" written all over it and that is not fun.
StriderTuna said: Compared to the boring invincible team, a genre savvy pair that only act at the role, and A nice girl and her sometimes vicious ancestor, Heaven Sky leads in face points.
The main reason everyone doesn't like them is because they call their development "boring" and everyone was outraged with Team Moriya's matches anyway. Bottom line, you know why everyone likes Heavenly Sky? Only because they are fun to watch and nothing else even though they have ZERO character development.
cd_young said: You forget, they beat Lost Servants. whom was Cybeast's favorite team, he probably will argue them Heels till they pay dues to his team.
You are right and Lost Servants IS my top favorite team in this since they had the best character development then ALL of the characters combined and had a reason to fight. HOWEVER HS beat them due to inconsistencies, bad script writing and defying the laws of physics during the last parts of the match which made that a "bullshit match" as well as the 4th one of this comic and the worst no less. THAT is my main problem, I said it before and I will say it again, Lost Servants had ALL of the odds COMPLETELY in their favor and should have ended the match in their win or a draw. Tenshi was ridiculously damaged too much especially to her head and back even for her durability to handle, she was repeatedly assaulted by submissions and techniques that specifically hurt her back and she was Pile Drived into the ceiling and the mat with her head with Suika throwing Sakuya both times to accelerate her which should have busted Tenshi's skull for a TKO and make her bleed but she didn't and she got up like it was nothing when Okuu freed her and Episode 965 was even titled "It's decided" on Dei's pixiv page, and lastly with Lost Servant's loss all of their development as a team has gone to waste and Sakuya is ashamed and filled with regret for letting down Koakuma and Suika which no one even cares about or even feel bad for her which is completely unbelievable and heartless when they deserve MUCH better which is why I want Tenshi to complement Sakuya for the match and to comfort her to be a good sport, otherwise Tenshi (not Okuu) will continue to be a Heel.
I can go on with this and point out many things that prove my point but I am getting carried away as is so I am going to leave it at that for now.
CybeastGregarX said: I can go on with this and point out many things that prove my point but I am getting carried away as is so I am going to leave it at that for now.
I'll be honest. After seeing that wall of text, I don't want to read that comic any more. There's just too much pointless discussions.
I had been considering the possibility that Heavenly Sky might agree to carry on Lost Servant's grudge with Reimu and Remilia to the finals but, with the way HS has been written, it occured to me that they would more likely point out the obvious - the whole revenge affair, though motivating on a character-building level, is fundamentally rather petty. Remilia made her own choice, and Suika took too long messing around and missed her chance. While you could argue that Tenshi's base character wouldn't mind pettiness, her gripe with the Immortals suggests she won't tolerate other people's pettiness even if she doesn't realize her own. And Okuu seems too straight-arrow for that outright.
Maybe I am wrong and, instead, HS will take up their fight, rather than one of revenge but one of Reimu and Remilia being dismissive of Sakuya and Suika, respectively. Or maybe they'll agree to it for reasons of honor. All I know is that it makes for a more interesting story that nothing about the plots is set in stone, as long as it is consistent.
I find it funny how you still keep insisting that HS is the "heel" team when comparatively there's oh let's see. Suwakos complete unhinged lunacy that has yet to really stop since the fight with Yuuka. At best looking creepy and acting as such as all hell at worse acting like a deranged killer. Coupled with Sanae who at the end of the day is only in this for the popularity. Interesting to note as well Suwakos only purpose for joining this tourney was to beat Yuuka...and she already did so everything from then on out has been...really delaying the inevitable. Red75% even more so with Remilia's complete over the top over prideful attitude that no matter how many times she's been shown up has never shown any hint of changing. Paired with Reimu who has done nothing but almost silently mocked anyone who dared challenge her knowing they're going to loose against her overwhelming power. Who also for that matter while perhaps not actively cheating are at the very least unashamedly bending the rules in their obvious favor. Lastly there's IC who while Kaguya has acting very much like a heel with her scheming since day 1 she has gotten debateably better about it. It is hard to call her a heel when Shiki comes in to attempt to curb stomp her for not being enough or a heel but at the same time with IC winning all that could mean in the end is her taking that as motivation to kick it up a notch. But really a lot of that is guesswork really and she has developed a fair bit over time especially alongside Mokou in the match against HJ and afterwards. However really her status in that regard really hinges on if that's what Kaguya really said or Tewi just thinks that. Really Cybeast it's reasons like that that have made people scoff at you every time you try to keep Calling HS the "heel" team. No the only reason you truly think that is that you can't get over the fact that they beat your favorite team and that's blinded you to both the rest of the roster and the future matches of the series. You have to look at the big picture and sometimes the good guys have to face good guys in the grand scheme of things.
You know I have been trying to be nice, believe it or not I was actually trying to be nice during this with trying explain things to people who don't see and try to have them understand at least a little bit and see my point while trying be fair, but now I see no reason to.
Megaman-Omega said: No the only reason you truly think that is that you can't get over the fact that they beat your favorite team and that's blinded you to both the rest of the roster and the future matches of the series.
I am so tired of this running gag of EVERYONE misinterperting my words, think of the wrong things, and instantly assume something entirely false about me. You honestly don't even know what I am truly even thinking but I will admit you are half right, if a match is won in a bullshit way that is why I will not get over it while everyone else who I was rooting for who lost fairly I am fine with but being slightly disappointed and will get over it in a short while. LS vs HS is seriously one which was won in a bullshit way which if you PAYED ATTENTION to the match which apparently no one else but me did and I cannot stress it enough. Tenshi was beaten to a bloody pulp especially to her head and back enough to get TKOed even for her durability to handle but she wasn't TKOed. Why? Because of poor and cheap writing and inconsistencies. Everyone doesn't even care at all about Sakuya who is ashamed and is in regret since she failed to fix things between Suika and Koakuma and just focus on HS's cheap win because LS is "dull" despite that they had the best character development then everyone else combined while HS had NONE. That said I am done trying to explain to people who refuse to listen.
CybeastGregarX said: Tenshi was beaten to a bloody pulp especially to her head and back enough to get TKOed even for her durability to handle but she wasn't TKOed. Why?
Because she obviously had not been beat enough to be TKO'd according to dei Shirou. She's still conscious, though has obviously not been able to stand on her own since Okuu pushed her to push herself that one last time with the pin. It's fine if you consider your interpretive skills so highly but remember that you don't decide how this series plays out. Saying no one else cares is just being self-centered of you; significant subplots do not die in this series, so resolution will happen. We should complain only if they don't ever resolve.
The most BS thing is everyone's fixation on Tenshi while treating Okuu with kid gloves and letting her get cheap hits in. That's PiS if ever there were any.
What's more, Tenshi didn't break, despite the heaviest hitter in the tournament wailing on her. If Suika can't break Tenshi, who can? No one, that's who.
FRien said: I'll be honest. After seeing that wall of text, I don't want to read that comic any more. There's just too much pointless discussions.
You can read the comic without following the comments.
Steak said: What's more, Tenshi didn't break, despite the heaviest hitter in the tournament wailing on her. If Suika can't break Tenshi, who can? No one, that's who.
You forget that Sakuya had Tenshi pinned for a three count. Chalk the loss up to a scouting failure on Suika's part: LS would have won if they remembered Utsuho using nukefeet in her first match.
Steak said: They didn't even remember she had nukes in her hands, so what can you expect?
They did. Suika's specifically went about letting Okuu hit her because she knew that Okuu never used more than one per arm; that's why she told Sakuya she "took out" Okuu after taking that second God Chop to the chin. The feet thing surprised most of us, I think.
Kilgamayan said: I can expect people to stop claiming Tenshi's ostensibly invincible because she demonstrably isn't.
I find it hard to think of someone who can't stand up invincible. Anyway, Sakuya spent more time with Tenshi than Suika did.
FJH said: They did. Suika's specifically went about letting Okuu hit her because she knew that Okuu never used more than one per arm;
Suika only let herself get hit once and deflected most of the blow away. However, she forgot about the other hand when she expanded and left herself completely open. Really, they completely ignored Okuu throughout the match, when Tenshi didn't even represent a threat.
It did, but we aren't in the same position LS is. We're just spectators: Suika's the one that needs to scout properly, or at least learn from her mistakes.
In addition to failed scouting, I would also put this loss on Suika's arrogance and how it led her to complacency. This isn't in just her tanking two nukechops in an effort to neutralize Utsuho, it can be seen in all the pinning combinations. All she could fathom was the brute-force approach and nukechopless Utsuho outwitted her no less than three times in sequences where one party tried to hold the other back. The crowning moment of this was standing there with Utsuho in one hand and a giant "it's over" grin on her face. Why not cover the top of her first hand with her second to prevent the upward escape? Why not run away with Utsuho in-hand? The brute-force prevention technique had already failed her once and she was so cocksure of herself that she tried it again.
Pride coming before the fall had been telegraphed for a while. Suika didn't suddenly become arrogant, she'd been that way for a while. And it led to her getting outbrained by the dumbest team in the tournament.
FJH offered a very reasonable (and even storyline-consistent!) explanation for why the chops connected. You must have seen it, because you responded to it. I don't know what point you're trying to make by repeating an addressed complaint.
StriderTuna said: As far as the two themselves in the ring? Clean, working well together, and basically the closest thing to fun personified in a tournament where things are horribly serious business.
"Clean" shouldn't matter, in a test of skill. "cleanliness" is subjective; you can call a number of strategies and tactics, or anything that increases the opponent's winning chances, "cheap".
"Working well together", good.
"Basically the closest thing to fun personified"... no. Many people don't see the beauty in quick decision taking, in choosing your options and tactics and strategies carefully, against an opponent with an also vast range of such options, tactics and strategies, each side having their virtues to capitalize on and flaws to work around. LS just got mocked, and the other teams are next in line.
"horribly serious business", just no. Definitely not "horrible". That sentence seems to express why people are liking HS's style, and why I don't.
Kilgamayan said: You forget that Sakuya had Tenshi pinned for a three count. Chalk the loss up to a scouting failure on Suika's part: LS would have won if they remembered Utsuho using nukefeet in her first match.
tl;dr: LS choked.
LS (and Magician team) hyped me with their strategically correct procedure, until choking, and thus LS failed to deliver a fun match for me to watch. Unfortunately, HS is set to win, because any team can be made to conveniently choke, and morals are (in this comic) much more relevant to the end result of matches, than skill (so, skill isn't the main subject of test here). The other teams are just doomed, to have their AI set to lvl 1 at the worst times possible. Once this pattern has been established, the only fun remaining for now is to confirm it.
shadowbringer said: any team can be made to conveniently choke
What does this even mean? "Every team has been written in such a fashion where they could logically and reasonably lose"? How is that a bad thing?
Me?!So, what are they saying down there?You have to read the atmosphere properly!Episode 978: I saw the flow.From the Artist's Pixiv page.The One Who Reads, The One Who Moves on InstinctEven though they were aiming to drag this war out from the beginning.Wh-what?!Tenshi, who ended the match, is completely enraged!!You're right.I see. Now that you mention it, it was rude of us.See, Suwako-sama?This is still your stage.Pardon our rudeness of walking into your affair....but I bought some time before your match.Let's meet at the next stage.This isn't an apology or anything....... That's got to be what they're saying, right?