Yes I have waited for this pairing to begin, funny I thought Bismarck would be shorter

Krugger said:

Yes I have waited for this pairing to begin, funny I thought Bismarck would be shorter

Why would she be shorter? She's the embodiment of the Aryan image.

azurelorochi said:

Why would she be shorter? She's the embodiment of the Aryan image.

I might be mistaken but I remember something about the Germans making their battleships smaller to conserve resources but with the same massive guns

Krugger said:

I might be mistaken but I remember something about the Germans making their battleships smaller to conserve resources but with the same massive guns

Wikipedia gave me this:
Bismarck: 251m in length with 41,700 tonnes standard
Nagato: 215.8m in length with 32,720 tonnes standard

So yeah, Bismarck is actually way bigger in every way, like a real Aryan to a Japanese person.

Krugger said:

I might be mistaken but I remember something about the Germans making there battleships smaller to conserve resources but with the same massive guns

I think because Hitler is more focus in ground warfare and wasn't focus enough in the sea. And there is Treaty of Versailles which limit the Germans to build six pre-dreadnought battleships which will not exceed beyond 10,000 tons but it allowed them to replace their ship which exceeding 20 years. When Hitler came to power he withdraw from the treaty, the German cancelled the D-class cruisers (16,000 tons) and allowed them to build Scharnhorst and the Gneisenau classes (33,000 tons) for political purpose.

Then there was the Anglo-German Naval Agreement, which allowed the German to build the Bismarck-class Battleship (36,000 tons), but they want to counter the French Richelieu-class battleship (35,000 tons, French largest battleship), so they raised Bismarck (41,700 tons), and becomes German's largest and the largest battleship of any European power.

Then Hitler implement the Plan Z which would strengthen the Kriegsmarine naval might to match up against the Royal Navy. But since it ordered in 1938 (a year before WW2 broke) no new ships were built and German has rely mostly on submarine warfare.

But if ever the war in Europe hadn't ended, the German might had build the largest super-battleship that is even larger than the Montana and the Super Yamato Classes as part of the ongoing Plan Z.

Thank you for that information

Lunatic6 said:

But if ever the war in Europe hadn't ended, the German might had build the largest super-battleship that is even larger than the Montana and the Super Yamato Classes as part of the ongoing Plan Z.

Then a problem remains;

"Where will the jerries get all the resources for that?"

mikoyan said:

Then a problem remains;

"Where will the jerries get all the resources for that?"

Resources probably aren't so scarce if you can enforce control over all of Europe as intended. Except food, cuz their farming layout was silly.

mikoyan said:

Then a problem remains;

"Where will the jerries get all the resources for that?"

One thing for sure, Hitler and Mussolini didn't planned to conquer whole Europe just for fun.

OOZ662 said:

Resources probably aren't so scarce if you can enforce control over all of Europe as intended.

mikoyan said:

Then a problem remains;

"Where will the jerries get all the resources for that?"

From the Black Continent ?

Totally not rethorical question: why did the Nazi open a war in the North Africa ? To secure the southern shore of the Mediterranean and Suez, just pissing off the other colonial power over there, or they want to get natural resource from Africa

Seika said:

Totally not rethorical question: why did the Nazi open a war in the North Africa ? To secure the southern shore of the Mediterranean and Suez, just pissing off the other colonial power over there, or they want to get natural resource from Africa

As far as I recall it was to secure control of the Suez Canal and the oil of the Middle East.

OOZ662 said:

As far as I recall it was to secure control of the Suez Canal and the oil of the Middle East.

And to force the british to take that "route" full of U-boats.

Lunatic6 said:
But if ever the war in Europe hadn't ended, the German might had build the largest super-battleship that is even larger than the Montana and the Super Yamato Classes as part of the ongoing Plan Z.

All of those concepts for the H-class battleship are under-gunned for their size, I can't help but notice. With that H44 proposal in particular, it's so ludicrously big I'm surprised they didn't want to put a Dora gun on it.

Magus said:

All of those concepts for the H-class battleship are under-gunned for their size, I can't help but notice. With that H44 proposal in particular, it's so ludicrously big I'm surprised they didn't want to put a Dora gun on it.

Schwerer Gustav and Dora weight a freaking 1,350 tons, and their fire rate is 1 per 30 to 45 minutes. Imagine, arming her eight could effect the ship's speed, which could make her an easy target. Also the gun's recoil blast might damage the ship's interior. They should have learned that since they know what happened to Bismarck while running in 11 knots away from her pursuers. And beside I think 20 inch gun is already big enough to slice up another warship. And like I said before... Hitler wasn't focus in this whole naval warfare and had to focus on ground warfare which Gustav and Dora served their purpose.

Lunatic6 said:

Schwerer Gustav and Dora weight a freaking 1,350 tons, and their fire rate is 1 per 30 to 45 minutes. Imagine, arming her eight could effect the ship's speed, which could make her an easy target. Also the gun's recoil blast might damage the ship's interior. They should have learned that since they know what happened to Bismarck while running in 11 knots away from her pursuers. And beside I think 20 inch gun is already big enough to slice up another warship. And like I said before... Hitler wasn't focus in this whole naval warfare and had to focus on ground warfare which Gustav and Dora served their purpose.

Schwerer Gustav weighed 1488tons or 1350tonnes, fully assembled. This included the transportation system which comprised over half its mass.
Weight wise, much of Gustav's weight would be eliminated by removing the base and transportation equipment. Therefore, stripping off everything you do not need in a naval gun, you are left with about a 500 to 600 ton gun.
Consider this, the Iowa's 16in guns weighed 134tons each, with 3 in each turret that made 402tons. The Turret alone weighed 1701tons. Combined, this gave the Iowa's turret a weight of 2103tons.

If you mounted 1 600 ton Schwerer Gustav to a 1700 ton turret, it would not only float but be entirely reasonable, the Yamato's turrets weighed more than that alone, without their guns.

Speed wise, arming the Bismark with 8 Schwerer Gustav would have dropped her speed by at most 1 whole knot. Of course, her Rate of Fire would have plummeted like a rock.

Speaking of damage to the ship from recoil? Nah, the recoil of the gun wouldn't harm the ship at all.
Now the concussion from the blast? Yes, that could tear the ship to shreds if it was done wrong. They'd have to limit the turret to +/-60 degrees and not allow it to fire in +/-30 degrees, so it'd have a very limited attack radius and not be combat feasible for the warfare of the time.

My point was, if you want to get ludicrous about battleship design, why not get completely ludicrous? Also, I was thinking in terms of one or two such guns mainly for shore bombardment, plus the anti-ship armament already planned. The H44 design called for 8 20-inch guns, which is an impressive armament until you realize that the ship would weigh in at 131,000 tons. That's roughly the same as Yamato and Musashi combined after all. With only those 4 twin turrets for 20-inch guns, plus secondary and anti-aircraft armament basically identical to the much smaller Bismarck, you've got a lot of unused space left on that behemoth. Besides, the Nazis were at the same time considering a tank that would mount a Schwerer Gustav/Dora type gun. Compared to that abomination, a battleship mounting such guns seems downright sane.

Twitter sample of http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi72zh1CEAEsAFx.jpg:orig