Talk about a mood whiplash from the artist's usual works. This was just downright depressing. Doesn't help they were bombed for one of the most idiotic inventions to ever grace human history.
The barrel-less turrets on Sakawa, and Nagato's main guns all facing down, plus all the rusts and dirts, that help a lot in not helping with containing the feelings
Um.... They're going to get nuked aren't they? Didn't the USS Independence get the nuke tested on it?
Most of the ships used where US actually, in fact only three captured vessels were present among the fleet that numbered 24 surface warships. Independence actually survived and was retained for some years apparently to study changes in radioactivity over an extended period before being sunk as a target in the very early 50s.
More then Independence though, or arguably any other ship present, the biggest sacrifice was probably Saratoga. She was nuked twice; the first time fuel stored on board aircraft as part of the test ignited and she burned for awhile, but was eventually extinguished. The second underwater shot was barely 400 yards away and buckled large sections of the facing hull, collapsed her stack, and hurled the ship dozens of feet into the air atop a wave literally a hundred feet high, but she nonetheless settled slowly onto the bottom perfectly upright and more or less intact. She also happens to be one of only three carriers in the world in water shallow enough to be dived on recreationally.
Beside Nagato and Sakawa the other captured vessel was Prince Eugen. She actually survived and was towed to another nearby island afterward. She was too hot with rads to really do much with though and for that same reason a small leak went unattended and after a few months she was in danger of sinking. When a storm brewed up they tried to beach her, but she capsized and sank in shallow water before they could. Thus did the wreck of a German heavy cruiser end up visible from the shore of a central pacific atoll...
If you think about it that probably would've made her a way more logical German ship to lead with then Bismark ever was...
I didn't know anything, and was thinking of a happy ending or something similar. Reading the comments shatters that thought. But the history kinda show how awesome they are even on their last moments
I didn't know anything, and was thinking of a happy ending or something similar. Reading the comments shatters that thought. But the history kinda show how awesome they are even on their last moments
Ignorance sure is a bliss huh? You didn't know they were made target practice so you thought of a happy ending. Yeah, it's very common.
I didn't know anything, and was thinking of a happy ending or something similar. Reading the comments shatters that thought. But the history kinda show how awesome they are even on their last moments
2 things you should know:
1, war is harsh for both sides and 2, history is written by the victors.
Talk about a mood whiplash from the artist's usual works. This was just downright depressing. Doesn't help they were bombed for one of the most idiotic inventions to ever grace human history.
Idiotic? It proved mass-energy equivalence once and for all. No religious zealot can argue against the realities of the physical world. Frankly, it's the ultimate expression of playing with fire...
I can imagine those USN ships saying... "We did our best to protect this country and in the end they'll just gonna do this to us?"
Yeah pretty sad.
Better than scrapping. No, really, learning something from the sinking of a ship is all part of naval design. They didn't want to just sit back and watch the ships burn. They wanted to see how the ships would hold up and what effects the crew might endure (I believe there were animals aboard the ships). From there, they might determine ways to protect the ship and the crew.
It was a noble end. Besides which, ships don't really die. They merely wait to be rechristened upon a new hull.
Better than scrapping. No, really, learning something from the sinking of a ship is all part of naval design. They didn't want to just sit back and watch the ships burn. They wanted to see how the ships would hold up and what effects the crew might endure (I believe there were animals aboard the ships). From there, they might determine ways to protect the ship and the crew.
It was a noble end. Besides which, ships don't really die. They merely wait to be rechristened upon a new hull.
It was a noble end. Besides which, ships don't really die. They merely wait to be rechristened upon a new hull.
This is actually supported by one of the manga. Kongou is bothered by her inability to reach airborne enemies and her story ends by showing the current Kongou is a guided missile destroyer. Later, Soryuu learns to appreciate the abilities of submarines and her story ends by showing the current Soryuu is now submarine herself who "today is submerged in the sea she protects."
Better than scrapping. No, really, learning something from the sinking of a ship is all part of naval design. They didn't want to just sit back and watch the ships burn. They wanted to see how the ships would hold up and what effects the crew might endure (I believe there were animals aboard the ships). From there, they might determine ways to protect the ship and the crew.
CMIIW, most of the ships are good enough to survive because they still have many ships towed back. Even the beaten Nagato can survive one nuke and how likely will they throw more than one bomb consecutively. The crew though…
Better than scrapping. No, really, learning something from the sinking of a ship is all part of naval design. They didn't want to just sit back and watch the ships burn. They wanted to see how the ships would hold up and what effects the crew might endure (I believe there were animals aboard the ships). From there, they might determine ways to protect the ship and the crew.
It was a noble end. Besides which, ships don't really die. They merely wait to be rechristened upon a new hull.
Imho scrapping can also be a noble end to a warship if the materials are used in service of the nation. Haruna, for example, was scrapped as well but the records all spoke of her contributing to the re-building of her motherland. To a romantic, it's not hard to imagine her cradling the recovering Japan in her arms like a dutiful mother =3
Depressing as this comic is, it's a refreshing break from Tanaka's teasing of Nagato =3
Idiotic? It proved mass-energy equivalence once and for all. No religious zealot can argue against the realities of the physical world. Frankly, it's the ultimate expression of playing with fire...
I suppose I admittedly sounded ignorant. I don't mind Nuclear Energy mind you, I'm all for doing the impossible to advance civilization to a higher plane. I guess it's just saddening when said discoveries that could potentially improve lives utilized for Mass Destruction.
Same could be said for most discoveries really. And as many have stated War is Hell.
Note also that Japan is the only country to have experienced the horror of a nuclear attack. I've read accounts from Hiroshima and Nagasaki that are downright horrifying. There was even a piece we discussed in one of classes about several victims of the bombing. Some of it chilled me to the bone.
Even the debate whether the bombing was justified is a controversial and sensitive topic.
1, war is harsh for both sides and 2, history is written by the victors.
No, no, no. That 2nd point wasn't quite true. It should be "the one with louder voice". I know it good enough to say it. Just look at Vietnam war for an instant, Vietnam won, America lost, yes, all happy, all good for everyone. But here, we of the Vietnamese people are taught that we have gone through so many wars other than that war with America even before and after. Before is with France, after is with China, by the way and so many others too. And what do you think most foreigners know? They only knew of the war with America and no other. Why do you think that is? Someone's loud voice got their attentions somewhere else.
Let's face it. This life itself is already cruel.Many knows that and chose to take themselves a bit of it and leave many others with nothing. That's typical. After all, not everybody is so dumb as to actually do stuff noone wants to do like me.
The sad fate is that of the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CV-6). Survivor and fighter of some of the worst battles in the Pacific. Damaged many times. Decorated many, many times (probably the most decorated ship of the war, or perhaps any war). There were attempts to save her as a museum, but that fell though. By 1958 she was being scrapped. Only pieces of her remain. But she has a legacy. One, soon to be two nuclear powered super carriers named after her. And probably the most famous starship in fiction, also named after her.
In context, I half image that the Wo-class are Yorktown, Hornet, and Enterprise.
The spirit of the ship endures with each new ship named after her. Which is why I'm kinda annoyed that many more ships nowadays are being named after people. I do understand MoH recipients and important people in history, but the Gabby Giffords was a waste of a hull for political points, so is naming every carrier we have now after a President. I was just a kid when they took the Ranger and Kitty Hawk out and I only grew up reading about the Yorktown and Hornet.
I'm jealous of the JMSDF because the ships of the IJN live on with the ships currently serving with her. Very few ships of that sort remain with the US Navy, at least for large ships.
I somehow want to see the continuation of this... When Nagato and Sakawa joins with USN ships, talking about past battle, their nation and purpose of them being here, saying that it's nice to have a worthy opponent or how they could be friends if the situation is different before the great light finally shines...
I somehow want to see the continuation of this... When Nagato and Sakawa joins with USN ships, talking about past battle, their nation and purpose of them being here, saying that it's nice to have a worthy opponent or how they could be friends if the situation is different before the great light finally shines...
I can totally see this.
1946: Nagato and Sawaka coming up to USN ships and start having friendly conversations, not wanting to be burdened by old feuds, reliving their glory days, becoming friends if even just for a day, bonding over shared experienced.
Then the bomb comes.
Independence: Guess this is it.
Nagato: Guess so.
Independence: Even if it was just for a day, I'm glad we met. You know, besides on the battlefield.
Nagato: Yeah, it was... nice. I hope... You think we can be friends in the next life?
Independence: Heh, maybe. It'd be nice to cruise together, go on missions, fight side by side, and...
Nagato: If we do come back as friends, you can count on me to protect you no matter what.
Independence: Even after all... Aw, I told myself I wouldn't get all sentimental! Ahem! Alright, Here's to the start of our new friendship!
Nagato: May we meet again and make it last a new lifetime!
Independence: And until then, (salutes) See you in hell, Nagato!
Nagato(saluting, smiling): See you in hell, Independence.
The sad fate is that of the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CV-6). Survivor and fighter of some of the worst battles in the Pacific. Damaged many times. Decorated many, many times (probably the most decorated ship of the war, or perhaps any war). There were attempts to save her as a museum, but that fell though. By 1958 she was being scrapped. Only pieces of her remain. But she has a legacy. One, soon to be two nuclear powered super carriers named after her. And probably the most famous starship in fiction, also named after her.
In context, I half image that the Wo-class are Yorktown, Hornet, and Enterprise.
That really was THE biggest fuck up in terms of ships needing preservation probably in US history.
We ended up keeping all these battleships and shit that barely did anything and the Flagship of the fleet that earned 20 of I think a possible 22 total battle stars for the entire pacific war (The Coral Sea and Java area operations being the only major ones she didn't have a part in) sunk like half the Japanese pre-war carrier fleet herself along with a score of other enemy vessels and at one point composed entirety of the US carrier fleet left in the paficic to face Japan and then they just trashed her. It was the equivalent of the British hacking of HMS Victory with axes for firewood and a complete travesty.
That really was THE biggest fuck up in terms of ships needing preservation probably in US history.
We ended up keeping all these battleships and shit that barely did anything and the Flagship of the fleet that earned 20 of I think a possible 22 total battle stars for the entire pacific war (The Coral Sea and Java area operations being the only major ones she didn't have a part in) sunk like half the Japanese pre-war carrier fleet herself along with a score of other enemy vessels and at one point composed entirety of the US carrier fleet left in the paficic to face Japan and then they just trashed her. It was the equivalent of the British hacking of HMS Victory with axes for firewood and a complete travesty.
While saving the battleships over the other ship types was definitely unfair, saying they barely did anything is unnecessarily dismissive of the service they rendered. They provided anti-air cover for the carriers, destroyed coastal fortifications during strikes on Japanese naval strongholds, and provided fire support for amphibious landings, all of which may not be as glamorous as duking it out with enemy battlewagons, but was no less vital to the war effort.
As a matter of fact, the reason why the USN battleships never saw much ship-to-ship combat is that the Japanese kept their battleships at home languishing in port for most of the war. Kinda hard to gain glory in combat when the enemy won't even show up.
Hell, we're lucky to have any WWII USN ships preserved. The Royal Navy had scrapped all but two of its WWII fleet within three decades of the war's end.
1946: Nagato and Sawaka coming up to USN ships and start having friendly conversations, not wanting to be burdened by old feuds, reliving their glory days, becoming friends if even just for a day, bonding over shared experienced.
Then the bomb comes.
Independence: Guess this is it.
Nagato: Guess so.
Independence: Even if it was just for a day, I'm glad we met. You know, besides on the battlefield.
Nagato: Yeah, it was... nice. I hope... You think we can be friends in the next life?
Independence: Heh, maybe. It'd be nice to cruise together, go on missions, fight side by side, and...
Nagato: If we do come back as friends, you can count on me to protect you no matter what.
Independence: Even after all... Aw, I told myself I wouldn't get all sentimental! Ahem! Alright, Here's to the start of our new friendship!
Nagato: May we meet again and make it last a new lifetime!
Independence: And until then, (salutes) See you in hell, Nagato!
Nagato(saluting, smiling): See you in hell, Independence.
-Bomb Explodes-
-Flash forward to the not to distance future-
"Hey, Nagato, where are you going?"
"Bikini Atoll. I'm waiting for a friend."
You forgot Saratoga, Nevada, Pennsylvania, New York, Arkansas, Prinz Eugen and the rest of the Americans
I suppose I admittedly sounded ignorant. I don't mind Nuclear Energy mind you, I'm all for doing the impossible to advance civilization to a higher plane. I guess it's just saddening when said discoveries that could potentially improve lives utilized for Mass Destruction.
Same could be said for most discoveries really. And as many have stated War is Hell.
Note also that Japan is the only country to have experienced the horror of a nuclear attack. I've read accounts from Hiroshima and Nagasaki that are downright horrifying. There was even a piece we discussed in one of classes about several victims of the bombing. Some of it chilled me to the bone.
Even the debate whether the bombing was justified is a controversial and sensitive topic.
Those who say the bombing was unnecessary really don't understand the Japanese mindset at the time-if defeat is inevitable, then make your opponent's victory as costly as possible. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the shock needed to convince them of the futility of that stance. Does that make the bombing a morally "good" action? No. But it was necessary to prevent further death and destruction.
I think both sides of the debate are guilty of simplifying the moral side of the decision-it's either righteous ass-kicking of those damn gooks, or a horrible atrocity that has stained the United States and all its people forever. The truth is, it was very bad, but the consequences of letting Japan continue the fight would be even worse for both sides.
I'd think going down to a Weapons Test would be second only to Death on the Battlefield in terms of a favorable end. And as the Able and Baker tests were among the largest scale tests history, it really ups the prestige.
I'd think going down to a Weapons Test would be second only to Death on the Battlefield in terms of a favorable end. And as the Able and Baker tests were among the largest scale tests history, it really ups the prestige.
I distinctly remember in a documentary there was one veteran who said he preferred the ship being sunk/scrapped than become a museum with kids running all about on her it what she deserved he said. Not sure which ship or documentary
I distinctly remember in a documentary there was one veteran who said he preferred the ship being sunk/scrapped than become a museum with kids running all about on her it what she deserved he said. Not sure which ship or documentary
I remember that too. However my GoogleFu is very weak and I can't seem to find it, which is frustrating.
If anyone has any idea where that came from, please let me know!
Those who say the bombing was unnecessary really don't understand the Japanese mindset at the time-if defeat is inevitable, then make your opponent's victory as costly as possible. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the shock needed to convince them of the futility of that stance. Does that make the bombing a morally "good" action? No. But it was necessary to prevent further death and destruction.
I think both sides of the debate are guilty of simplifying the moral side of the decision-it's either righteous ass-kicking of those damn gooks, or a horrible atrocity that has stained the United States and all its people forever. The truth is, it was very bad, but the consequences of letting Japan continue the fight would be even worse for both sides.
Personally, I think the Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, in hindsight, and I apologize if this sounds cold, a necessary sacrifice. It showed the rest of the world the effects of nuclear weapons on a civilian population and, I'm sure, was part of what prevented the further use of nukes in war since then, and I hope that such weapons are never ever used again.
Personally, I think the Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, in hindsight, and I apologize if this sounds cold, a necessary sacrifice. It showed the rest of the world the effects of nuclear weapons on a civilian population and, I'm sure, was part of what prevented the further use of nukes in war since then, and I hope that such weapons are never ever used again.
Not in large scale, but they are still being used in strategic missle warheads. Well, it's now calculated to just affect a certain area instead of going for an over kill though.
The sad fate is that of the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CV-6). Survivor and fighter of some of the worst battles in the Pacific. Damaged many times. Decorated many, many times (probably the most decorated ship of the war, or perhaps any war). There were attempts to save her as a museum, but that fell though. By 1958 she was being scrapped. Only pieces of her remain.
Her tramp stamp and bell still exist. Her little girl, Enterprise CVN-65 wore some of her portholes, in the Captain's cabin, the fancy one you use at port, all her life.
She passed them on to *her* little girl, CVN-80, USS Enterprise. She also gave her a piece of steel, which the newest E has in her keelplates now.
I don't think any of them turned Abyssal... they were scrapped, but they both served with utter distinction, as befits the name Enterprise. They're unbreakable.
I can imagine those USN ships saying... "We did our best to protect this country and in the end they'll just gonna do this to us?"
Yeah pretty sad.
Seeing the rusted waste the boats the Navel mothballed until they sunk or sold for scrap, getting nuked was a quicker death. Besides, that was when the cold war was on and we needed to know what the effects of a nuke on a fleet would do. This was all new to everyone and we needed to know before a REAL nuclear broke out and learn the hard way.
Those who say the bombing was unnecessary really don't understand the Japanese mindset at the time-if defeat is inevitable, then make your opponent's victory as costly as possible. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the shock needed to convince them of the futility of that stance. Does that make the bombing a morally "good" action? No. But it was necessary to prevent further death and destruction.
I think both sides of the debate are guilty of simplifying the moral side of the decision-it's either righteous ass-kicking of those damn gooks, or a horrible atrocity that has stained the United States and all its people forever. The truth is, it was very bad, but the consequences of letting Japan continue the fight would be even worse for both sides.
Atsuitako said:
Personally, I think the Atomic Bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, in hindsight, and I apologize if this sounds cold, a necessary sacrifice. It showed the rest of the world the effects of nuclear weapons on a civilian population and, I'm sure, was part of what prevented the further use of nukes in war since then, and I hope that such weapons are never ever used again.
Nowadays, USA doesn't need nukes anymore, they already got new super weapons called "Internet" and "Hollywood"
