Kidnapped? Rescued? I always thought that Marisa resented her real family because they didn't approve of her wanting to learn magic. So she ran away and somehow ended up meeting the most evil person in Gensokyo, whom she was more than willing to join if she could learn magic.

I've also always had a slight suspicion that Marisa might ultimately be Reimu's undoing.

But hey, everyone's got their own headcanon.

angrybull said:

Kidnapped? Rescued? I always thought that Marisa resented her real family because they didn't approve of her wanting to learn magic. So she ran away and somehow ended up meeting the most evil person in Gensokyo, whom she was more than willing to join if she could learn magic.

I've also always had a slight suspicion that Marisa might ultimately be Reimu's undoing.

But hey, everyone's got their own headcanon.

Much of Touhou PC-98 has sadly been retconned. Alice for example being a "Human turned magician" and there's like no mention of Makai or Shinki about her anymore.

Marisa hated Reimu because Mima hated Reimu. They used to be enemies. Now they are like BFF. If PC-98 was still 100% canon, then the Hakurei shrine would have a cute robot maid that Reimu got in one of them.

Tetsamaru said:

Much of Touhou PC-98 has sadly been retconned. Alice for example being a "Human turned magician" and there's like no mention of Makai or Shinki about her anymore.

Marisa hated Reimu because Mima hated Reimu. They used to be enemies. Now they are like BFF. If PC-98 was still 100% canon, then the Hakurei shrine would have a cute robot maid that Reimu got in one of them.

The retconning does suck. I liked it better when a bad end was a bad end. I remember one danbooru user once posted that a Windows bad end was basically you go home and take a nap.

Zun must have been drinking too much between Mystic Square and EoSD. Or he wasn't drinking enough. I'm not sure how it works with him. The point is that he wasn't drinking the right amount.

worthlessvalor said:

When she's younger she's kidnapped by an evil spirit who taught her about magic, before rescued by the Hakurei Shrine Maiden

...I know that people have their own headcannon for Touhou, and I completely understand but. There's so much 'wrong' with that sentence.

angrybull said:

The retconning does suck. I liked it better when a bad end was a bad end. I remember one danbooru user once posted that a Windows bad end was basically you go home and take a nap.

Zun must have been drinking too much between Mystic Square and EoSD. Or he wasn't drinking enough. I'm not sure how it works with him. The point is that he wasn't drinking the right amount.

The difference between PC-98 and windows is the fact that Touhou went from group effort to 1 man show. It's been mentioned before that the reason ZUN doesn't re-use some old characters is because they weren't his creation. Probably someone else in the circle made them. Half of the story probably wasn't written by him.

Tetsamaru said:

The difference between PC-98 and windows is the fact that Touhou went from group effort to 1 man show. It's been mentioned before that the reason ZUN doesn't re-use some old characters is because they weren't his creation. Probably someone else in the circle made them. Half of the story probably wasn't written by him.

I never heard that before, but it does make sense. I always thought that Zun had designed and programmed the first five Touhou games by himself when he worked at Amusement Makers and the company was the one that put the game onto a CD and sold it.

It also means that it's possible that Zun hasn't been trolling us by not bringing Mima back, but in fact might not be able to bring her back due to legal reasons. [Insert the "dramatic no" here]

I still think that he made Tojiko just to troll us, though.

angrybull said:

I never heard that before, but it does make sense. I always thought that Zun had designed and programmed the first five Touhou games by himself when he worked at Amusement Makers and the company was the one that put the game onto a CD and sold it.

It also means that it's possible that Zun hasn't been trolling us by not bringing Mima back, but in fact might not be able to bring her back due to legal reasons. [Insert the "dramatic no" here]

I still think that he made Tojiko just to troll us, though.

Zun did make Touhou 1-5 by himself too. At the AWA con in Georgia in the US (the one Zun himself came to), when asked about PC-98, he stated it is still "somewhat" canon, and that there is nothing keeping him from bringing back other characters.

The reason why he hasn't is because he doesn't like reusing boss characters again and again and again. Mima had been in four games and was playable in two of them. But he said he isn't against the idea of any of them returning if he can make a good reason to bring them back.

So PC-98 is still canon, and Zun when working for Amusement Makers worked alone, just as he continues to do with his current "group" Team Shanghai Alice.

painisemo said:
Zun did make Touhou 1-5 by himself too. At the AWA con in Georgia in the US (the one Zun himself came to), when asked about PC-98, he stated it is still "somewhat" canon, and that there is nothing keeping him from bringing back other characters.

The reason why he hasn't is because he doesn't like reusing boss characters again and again and again. Mima had been in four games and was playable in two of them. But he said he isn't against the idea of any of them returning if he can make a good reason to bring them back.

So PC-98 is still canon, and Zun when working for Amusement Makers worked alone, just as he continues to do with his current "group" Team Shanghai Alice.

What I was mainly getting at in my previous comment was that instead of a copyright reason, it's more of a pride reason as theorized by alot of PC-98 fans that really wish those games were 100% still canon instead of "Somewhat" canon.

It's not secret that much of that age has indeed been retconned and while ZUN may say it's still "canon", he's still made a really big divide between the 2 storylines. At least untill if he ever decides to address those issues. It's very close minded to think ZUN has to use a game medium for that which I believe alot of people seem to assume it has to be. If in the next official Manga for Touhou ZUN writes back in Mima, it would definetely stop alot of bitching based on her alone.

angrybull said:

I never heard that before, but it does make sense. I always thought that Zun had designed and programmed the first five Touhou games by himself when he worked at Amusement Makers and the company was the one that put the game onto a CD and sold it.

It also means that it's possible that Zun hasn't been trolling us by not bringing Mima back, but in fact might not be able to bring her back due to legal reasons. [Insert the "dramatic no" here]

I still think that he made Tojiko just to troll us, though.

It's a common theory, including that Amusement Makers somehow holds copyright.

However, here's what I point to whenever someone says that Amusement Makers is a reason he doesn't use PC-98, or that there's even "bad blood" between them. For one, they're basically just a programming hobby group at his university, not really a "company". There's really no reason for anyone in the group now or before to care. Second, ZUN used some of Amusement Makers' resources in the making of Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, which was made after he left the group. Lastly, ZUN HAS brought Mima back, specifically on the cover of one of his CDs. Not something he would do if he *couldn't* use her.

I think a bigger reason why he doesn't use PC-98 is, as said, pride, and just being who he is. He likes the process in creating a new round of stuff with each game, rather than looking back. Especially something that is long past by now. If he wanted to he would have integrated it (more) by now.

TL;DR he just doesn't want to use PC-98.

If he ever uses it from here on I think it'll be like what he's done to this point, like in the form of Alice or Yuuka or more realistically, Undefined Fantastic Object... basically just throwing a bone out there now and then, whenever he can fit it in.

And on the whole topic of Mima there is no point in bringing her back. We basically have a new Mima in the form of Marisa. Her speech, personality, and even some of her spell cards are all similar to her.

Think of it as the master passing the torch on to the apprentice.

the reason zun wants to leave pc-98 alone is the same reason that stephen king dislikes carrie; they think that these older works are too "crude" and even "childish" for them to appreciate anymore

really, most people do this with everything, all the time... even when their later works are about the same (or, in some cases, worse). people are dumb