It matters not what you want, because no matter what every action has the same outcome. You only try to delay the inevitable or deny its very happening.
The more innocent they are the more satisfying is the corruption. Still it's kinda sad to see an innocent character being violated.
That's internet for you
But still is it just because she got an educational purpose, people decided to make her "pure as much as possible" ?, What about other H-doujin based on other Anime Character, or does anyone feel upset when they got sexually depicted, does parents decided to not buy the Toy later ?, I think it's simply because of our perspective in (strict ?) educational that everything related to it should not be stained. Though I think it quite an unnecessary worry since unless kids actively look up the internet just for one character in the text book rather than playing games other than that it is us (let's accept it, at this point being a Danboorian, you know how you are and how looking for H-doujin work) who may be have too much concerns over some UNIMPORTANT CHARACTER IN A TEXT BOOK whose image just being use in a different purposes.
Prerequisite: I am not trying to be a white knight or pretentious SJW, I would say these exact same things in regards to Twilight and Fujoshi's depictions of males.
Thing is, it objectifies her. It defeats her purpose as an educational mascot and reduces her to a pair of pretty tits and asses for otakus to ogle on. Don't lie, ask yourself how many otakus actually became interested in learning English because of her VS those who will just look up ecchi pics of Ellen Baker and forget her existence in a month.
I am by no means saying sex is evil or that girls must never be sexy. Sex is a natural thing and sexual attraction is also a natural thing, but these characters(and by extension real people such as Natalia Poklonskaya) have more meaning to their positions, and it is insulting to ignore what they represent merely in favor of your personal satisfaction. It would be like hospitals outright saying they will let you die if you don't pay them however much they demand, no matter how unreasonable the price.
If a few images of Ellen in bikinis are going to convince a thousand otakus to actually study and become interested in things outside of their country, that's great, that's what we should endorse more. But if otakus are just going to draw images of her being gangbanged and never look at another paragraph of English text again, then that defeats her meaning. To a living person like Natalia, it's the greatest insult, and to a fictional character like Ellen, it defies their purpose for existing(to be a tool for education).
And even without the issue of objectification, it still just shows how shallow otakus are. As repressed as a man is in a Japanese society, this type of mindset is counterproductive.
But still is it just because she got an educational purpose, people decided to make her "pure as much as possible" ?, What about other H-doujin based on other Anime Character, or does anyone feel upset when they got sexually depicted, does parents decided to not buy the Toy later ?, I think it's simply because of our perspective in (strict ?) educational that everything related to it should not be stained. Though I think it quite an unnecessary worry since unless kids actively look up the internet just for one character in the text book rather than playing games other than that it is us (let's accept it, at this point being a Danboorian, you know how you are and how looking for H-doujin work) who may be have too much concerns over some UNIMPORTANT CHARACTER IN A TEXT BOOK whose image just being use in a different purposes.
You don't get it. The thing is not where she originated from or which purpose her image is shown for. The problem is that she is a NEW AND GAINED LOTS OF ATTENTION <- This is important. Just like that thing with Kashima and the KanColle-Lawson collaboration , she gained popularity and instantly got looked in such way, and the number of booming images isn't low at all. See that, and you don't think there's a problem? But well, it's kind of impossible to avoid when this "society" is in such state.
Anyway, sudden sky rocketed popularity leading to scandals makes people sympathize. That's how the thing works.
To your argument that other characters also got H doujin/books/illustrations too, Like I said, we can't avoid that, but they at least didn't quite face such a boom so your comparison don't quite stand. In Kashima's case, she had that collaboration to raise popularity even faster than the pace she had been going at so no comparison done.
I totally agree with the sympathize.Also, I'm sorry since I might not be clear about the main point in my post, I was originally talk about the fact that because of the popularity in her H-doujin, some medias!? in Japan is afraid that it might be inappropriate for kids since the character inside their textbook has some "sensitive images" on the internet, thus they think that it is >>important<< to tell everyone to quit write H-doujin, that what I mean when saying it as an "unnecessary worry" and when I wrote "Unimportant" is for those who think too highly for educational and not sentimental for the character.
Ok, she is a mascot with educational purpose, I get it, even some medias!? in Japan is afraid that it might be inappropriate for kids since the character inside their textbook has some "sensitive images" on the internet, thus they think that it is >>Important<< to tell everyone to quit write H-doujin but again, kids just don't have times to just look up the internet for some character in the text book, they would rather play games and she is not the only mascot character that APPEARED IN KID'S LIFE that got H-dj adaption (Exp:Precure series has a really long history). Cast sentimental reasons of Otaku aside temporarily and like you said she is an educational tool, but then again she is nothing but a "tool" that being use in a different purposes and just because she is an educational tool doesn't mean she can not be use for sex.(Do you even know about classroom and other educational related stuffs-ish's porn ?) real-life character will (of course) be offensive, but since this is just a "tool" we talking about, there is nothing to feel offensive about and also don't debate whether this is productive for educational or not, even if it's might not go up, it's not going to go down either just because of this.
You're missing my point. I never said anything about the kids, nor do I care how the kids or parents look at Ellen.
I'm talking specifically about the otakus, ie the people who are subjecting her to this sort of treatment and is therefore, the source of this entire controversy.
Ellen is an educational tool for ENGLISH. Japanese people have a very closed mind when it comes to anything outside of their country, be it languages or culture. That is why Ellen is here to help break the ice to that course. To help kids feel more comfortable in learning about language and the world outside of their island country while enjoying it.
The otakus, however only sees her as "another cute mascot trend" and fails to register this purpose at all, only using her for self-serving sexual gratification. If you disagree, show me a "real" image of Ellen actually being drawn for legit sex ed, and not just put in weird sexual positions with awkward engrish captions strapped to it. THERE ISN'T ANY. Porn is NOT sex ed.
Otakus don't care what Ellen's purpose is, they DON'T CARE TO LEARN ANYTHING FROM HER, the only thing they care is for her appearance. Imagine that applied to real life if you ignore everything your teacher say to simply draw images of you having sex with her in your notebook all the time. How would that help the education system, or rather, how would that help YOU as a human being? How would that help YOUR SOCIETY if so many people are willing to act like shallow perverted idiots who doesn't give two shits about education and self-betterment?
I think some of you are taking what is essentially a flavor of the month meme far too seriously.
Sorry but I'm just explaining my stance with details to back it up. I don't have any intent of being aggressive, I'm just trying to be a good debater.
People always think I'm being overly aggressive or butthurt just because of it and it irks me when people downvote me down just for being "the opposition". If you don't want to be part of the conversation, you shouldn't be judging the ones who are in it.
And I'm also not just taking issues with the "flavor of the month". I don't really care for Ellen, but it still doesn't change that she brings to light too many issues with the otaku sterotypes(ie. the stereotype representing the anime fan community).
I understand your concerns. However, as someone who has seen this thing played out numerous times over the years and have been on both sides at some point (one side for much longer than the other), it's really not something you should really worry about because ultimately the people who are going to use this as evidence against the otaku community don't actually really care about improving anything at all about it. They're going to use any and all evidence they can against it, no matter how small or ultimately insignificant it is in the long run.
Even if the Japanese side pulls a Safety Wrap Up similar to what bronies did years ago that actually managed to help remove any NSFW pony art from google so kids wouldn't accidentally run into it, they will still be whining about how the otaku community are a bunch of perverts or whatever.
You say that the otaku don't care about whether or not Ellen Baker is supposed to be an educational tool--I'd wager to bet that the people on the other side of the debate don't care either. A number of them maybe but they're all more concerned about pointing out how otaku are degenerates than whether or how to figure out how to help parents filter this sort of stuff out so their kids don't stumble upon it.
I mean even with the artist's own request to tone down this sort of stuff, there's still going to be a number of people who won't, even if the Japanese are more likely to respect their request. There is really so much anybody can do outside of restricting the internet to North Korea levels.
As for stereotypes... well. People are going to use stereotypes against groups all the time for all sorts of reasons. They're not going to care about anything else or even if said group is "improving." There's not much you can do about people who simply refuse to think beyond stereotypes, they'll just use any instance of it so they can reinforce their ideals instead of challenging them and risk discovering the fact that they maybe wrong about something. It doesn't even have to be something big they are wrong about.
Again, I get where you're coming, it's just there is really very little that can be done about stereotypes, regardless of how much truth they have. Even if the community is shit... very little can be done to improve it besides from you being the better person. Unless you're really, really charismatic there's not much you can do to "change" internet communities. At least, you can't really force them to change.
I suspect another issue is that people are more than whatever labels they wear. Even if someone claims to be a proud otaku, there is more than them to being an otaku, even if they are rarely aware of it. A person in general is made up of all sorts of things, not just one thing, even if some things influence them than others, and that's not including what phase they are in life. If the "opposition" so to speak are simply using that label against them without understanding that people in general are far more complex than we give them credit and simply refuse to look beyond the 16% of Ellen Baker fanart that is lewd... then that's their own fault for being limited in their thinking.
Finally, someone matured without a crisis identity about something so little. And you just explained what I said earlier ( comment #1526833 ) with the best of words.
And to those teenagers labeling themselves into sub cultures, you may not know about it until you grow more, but SJW behave just like subculture teens... some of them don't even grow ever. The best way to counter offensive remarks about your tastes is to not be offended and pretend to be politically correct about your own either. I mean, how can you pretend everyone else to not feel offended if you get offended and ashamed without any help? That's why we have feminists over the most trivial things. Being tolerant starts from the group itself, not otherwise.
One important thing that I've learned in life is that no one likes a whistleblower. Even if it's legitimate problem, people still don't like the guy that only calls attention to it.
You know who people do like? Problem solvers. Someone that fixes a problem without making a federal case out of it. People that don't just sit around whining about a problem and actually work to fix it themselves.
So what I'm saying is, if you don't like the porn being made of ol Ellen here, then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Get in contact with the artists and politely ask them to stop with a well thought out explaination for why what they're doing is wrong.
Its amazing how quickly people allow censorship just because they are afraid of what "might" happen. People can draw whatever they want, you are free to ask them to not do so, but you are also free to just ignore it.
Romcollector and KaitoDies got it right. Stop expecting people to bend over just because you are offended. The internet does not respect your authority.
also 2D isn't real. Stop treating it like it is...
So next time you draw a 34-rule picture, think about the feelings of non-existent characters!
Jokes aside, actually I do understand. I have never really liked pics portraying cruelty (not only rape), specially if they are from a character I really like. So I can imagine if I were the author, I really wont like to see my creation suffering.
But I wont have any problems with non-cruel ero pics.
In the end, whatever my opinion, your opinion, or the author's opinion about this kind of pictures, censorship is just a no-no.
TheGame7 said:
So what I'm saying is, if you don't like the porn being made of ol Ellen here, then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Get in contact with the artists and politely ask them to stop with a well thought out explaination for why what they're doing is wrong.
**EDITED** You know, come to think about it, no, I don't really agree.
If I put myself on the shoes of an artist, sounds *really* annoying the idea of some people asking me to stop drawing something, just because they don't like it!
So the only actually polite thing to do (at least here on danbooru) is to use the blacklist mechanism and block whatever you don't like, and leave the artists and their fans alone.
If one's immediate reaction to a polite request not to draw porn of a character meant to teach Japanese students English is to complain about people getting "offended", all it means is that they have gotten offended by someone telling them not do do something; a clear-cut example of projection.
If one's immediate reaction to a polite request not to draw porn of a character meant to teach Japanese students English is to complain about people getting "offended", all it means is that they have gotten offended by someone telling them not do do something; a clear-cut example of projection.
