A tongue twister in one's own language is painful enough, a tongue twister in a different language is pretty much R'lyehian.

By the way, the series is just 6 strips away from overtaking the year count.

You know you've reached new heights when you manage to have a translation war with yourself...

Reader added tags include "Tsukumo Taiwanese Lessons", "Horrors of Pinyin", "Speak in Linto Hieroglyphics!", "Bouzu ga Byoubu ni Jyouzu ni Bouzu no E wo Kaita" (Japan's own tongue twister. Translated, it means "A boy drew on the screen a picture of a boy very well), and "Survey in which I don't want to memorize any of them."

This survey's a bit hard to understand, can you repeat it?

Which language do you want to learn?

• Japanese (English in the original survey)
• Chinese
• German
• French
• Russian

(Can someone add the Pinyin version of the phrase, please? Really appreciate it.)

TwinLeadersX said:

Which language do you want to learn?

No Japanese?

Schrobby said:

No Japanese?

Well, the original survey was in Japanese, but...yeah, maybe I'll change that.

TwinLeadersX said:
• Russian

👍! North China (ex-Manchu) already does it massively.
But why doesn’t lack of Korean (or Formosan Aboriginal/Manchurian/Mongol/Ainu/Whatever) honestly surprises me :P?

Cantonese is worse. It has six tones. I get it wrong all the time due to my accent.

BTW the PinYin I found (Not sure if accurate) goes "Māmā qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māmā mà mǎ". In Cantonese, it's a bit difficult to say as well at least for me.

xahldera said:

BTW the PinYin I found (Not sure if accurate) goes "Māmā qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māmā mà mǎ". In Cantonese, it's a bit difficult to say as well at least for me.

Wow how you make the tones? That is correct, though my Pinyin is the China version, not sure how different it is from Taiwanese version.

xahldera said:

BTW the PinYin I found (Not sure if accurate) goes "Māmā qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māmā mà mǎ". In Cantonese, it's a bit difficult to say as well at least for me.

Er, question. Is "màn" equal to the second, rising tone of Chinese? The website I listed had "má" instead...

TwinLeadersX said:

Er, question. Is "màn" equal to the second, rising tone of Chinese? The website I listed had "má" instead...

Second tone is the one pointing up, the pointing down is fourth.

Edit:

OMGkillitwithfire said:

It should be "Māma qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māma mà mǎ". For Māma (mom in Chinese) the first ma's tone goes up (first tone) and then it drops at the second ma (no tone). Or at least that's what I was taught.

Oh yes that one. Forgot about it. It was suddenly added to my syllabus, so kinda ignored it.

xahldera said:

BTW the PinYin I found (Not sure if accurate) goes "Māmā qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māmā mà mǎ". In Cantonese, it's a bit difficult to say as well at least for me.

It should be "Māma qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māma mà mǎ". For Māma (mom in Chinese) the first ma's tone goes up (first tone) and then it drops at the second ma (no tone). Or at least that's what I was taught.
Also do note that Taiwanese Mandarin and Mainland China Mandarin are similar but different, the biggest one being Taiwan using Zhuyin fuhao while China uses Pinyin.

OMGkillitwithfire said:

It should be "Māma qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māma mà mǎ". For Māma (mom in Chinese) the first ma's tone goes up (first tone) and then it drops at the second ma (no tone). Or at least that's what I was taught.
Also do note that Taiwanese Mandarin and Mainland China Mandarin are similar but different, the biggest one being Taiwan using Zhuyin fuhao while China uses Pinyin.

Oh, you have got to be...
So what does that mean in this context? Is it Taiwanese or Mainland Chinese, and is the website I put there an accurate reference? I'm confused, because the comic talks about the "Taiwanese" language, but one of the tags mentions "Pinyin"...

Edit:

OMGkillitwithfire said:

It's Taiwanese Mandarin here in the comic strip. The pinyin tag might be that the user thought that Taiwanese use pinyin as well.
As for the link, it's fine, the pronunciation is the same (just sounds kind of weird due to Google voice).

I meant the link in the comic, not the commentary, but thanks anyway. I'll try changing the translation accordingly.

TwinLeadersX said:

Oh, you have got to be...
So what does that mean in this context? Is it Taiwanese or Mainland Chinese, and is the website I put there an accurate reference? I'm confused, because the comic talks about the "Taiwanese" language, but one of the tags mentions "Pinyin"...

It's Taiwanese Mandarin here in the comic strip. The pinyin tag might be that the user thought that Taiwanese use pinyin as well.
As for the link, it's fine, the pronunciation is the same (just sounds kind of weird due to Google voice).
Edit:
What I'm trying to say is that the romanization system between the two is different, but the meaning and pronunciation of the hanzi itself in both Mandarins are basically (but not always) the same.
If you need examples, I can give a few but it's getting late here where I live. I'll get back to you tomorrow if you want.
Edit 2:

I meant the link in the comic, not the commentary, but thanks anyway. I'll try changing the translation accordingly.

Oh so that's what you meant. I wouldn't say that it's wrong but it appears to be more to Pinyin.

GiantCaveMushroom said:

A tongue twister in one's own language is painful enough, a tongue twister in a different language is pretty much R'lyehian.

By the way, the series is just 6 strips away from overtaking the year count.

It's probably a bad thing that I chuckled after reading that tongue twister, isn't it?

OMGkillitwithfire said:

It's Taiwanese Mandarin here in the comic strip. The pinyin tag might be that the user thought that Taiwanese use pinyin as well.
As for the link, it's fine, the pronunciation is the same (just sounds kind of weird due to Google voice).

Edit:
What I'm trying to say is that the romanization system between the two is different, but the meaning and pronunciation of the hanzi itself in both Mandarins are basically (but not always) the same.
If you need examples, I can give a few but it's getting late here where I live. I'll get back to you tomorrow if you want.
Edit 2:

As far as i am concerned, ROC Mandarin and Mainland Mandarin are the same. Tone-based and understandable by both sides, with the diffrence only being in their written form.

And I personally find pinyin much easier to pick uo and appreciate when i was a kid. I suspect that the PRC recognized the importance and convenience of romanizing Mandarin in an English-dominated world. Never understood zhuyin, and will probably never intend to.

OMGkillitwithfire said:

It's Taiwanese Mandarin here in the comic strip. The pinyin tag might be that the user thought that Taiwanese use pinyin as well.
As for the link, it's fine, the pronunciation is the same (just sounds kind of weird due to Google voice).

Hanyu pinyin is the official system of romanization of Mandarin Chinese in Taiwan as of 2008 (Tongyong pinyin is now deprecated).

That said, the official phonetic transcription of Mandarin Chinese in Taiwan is still Zhuyin (AKA Bopomofo, AKA Chinese Katakana).

OMGkillitwithfire said:
Edit:
What I'm trying to say is that the romanization system between the two is different, but the meaning and pronunciation of the hanzi itself in both Mandarins are basically (but not always) the same.
If you need examples, I can give a few but it's getting late here where I live. I'll get back to you tomorrow if you want.
Edit 2:

Oh so that's what you meant. I wouldn't say that it's wrong but it appears to be more to Pinyin.

Well, some words are pronounced differently in Taiwanese Mandarin. Most of the differences are just tonal, but 垃圾 is a notable case that is pronounced as lèsè (not lājī). 和 is also sometimes pronounced as hàn.

Taiwanese speakers also have a tendency to drop the 'h' in zh, ch, and sh (moreso than Singaporean Mandarin and Malaysian Mandarin speakers), and almost never use erhua (trait also shared by Singaporean Mandarin and Malaysian Mandarin speakers). The light/neutral tone (轻声), the phenomenon where a destressed word loses its tone, is also nearly absent among speakers of all the above variants of Mandarin.

There are also considerable lexical differences between Taiwanese Mandarin and Standard Mandarin (not unlike BrE and AmE, or between Singaporean/Malaysian Mandarin and Standard Mandarin). The most notable ones include 歐吉桑 (ōujísāng) and 歐巴桑 (ōubāsāng), which are obviously derived from Japanese おじ（い）さん and おば（あ）さん. (Yes, both ojisan and ojiisan are adapted the same way).

(一级棒 (yījíbàng) is another (in)famous one, from Japanese 一番 (ichiban). That said, 一级棒 has been finding its way into Mainland Mandarin and Singaporean/Malaysian Mandarin recently.)

Māma qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māma mà mǎ

Next let Kogasauthor read the Lion-Eating Poet.

shí shì shī shì shī shì,
shì shī, shì shí shí shī.
shì shí shí shì shì shì shī.
shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí, shì shī shì shì shì shì.
shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì,
shǐ shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shí shì.
shí shì shī, shì shǐ shì shì shí shì.
shí shì shì, shì shǐ shì shí shí shī shī.
shí shí, shǐ shí shí shī shī,
shí shí shí shī shī.
shì shì shì shì

NNescio said:

Well, some words are pronounced differently in Taiwanese Mandarin. Most of the differences are just tonal, but 垃圾 is a notable case that is pronounced as lèsè (not lājī). 和 is also sometimes pronounced as hàn.

Was going to come back and add this example. Guess I was just a few minutes late.

Good explanation on the difference, mate. Taiwanese Mandarin seems to adopt plenty of Japanese words, and thanks to the ever popular Taiwanese TV shows, it has spread to other communities as well.

Next let Kogasauthor read the Lion-Eating Poet.

shí shì shī shì shī shì,
shì shī, shì shí shí shī.
shì shí shí shì shì shì shī.
shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí, shì shī shì shì shì shì.
shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì,
shǐ shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shí shì.
shí shì shī, shì shǐ shì shì shí shì.
shí shì shì, shì shǐ shì shí shí shī shī.
shí shí, shǐ shì shì shí shī shī,
shí shí shí shī shī.
shì shì shì shì

Oh god, not this!

NNescio said:
Explanation

Thanks for the explanation. I know I can count on NNescio when it comes to explaining stuff (which has always been what I couldn't do well orz).

NNescio said:

Next let Kogasauthor read the Lion-Eating Poet.

shí shì shī shì shī shì,
shì shī, shì shí shí shī.
shì shí shí shì shì shì shī.
shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí, shì shī shì shì shì shì.
shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì,
shǐ shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shí shì.
shí shì shī, shì shǐ shì shì shí shì.
shí shì shì, shì shǐ shì shí shí shī shī.
shí shí, shǐ shí shí shī shī,
shí shí shí shī shī.
shì shì shì shì

That's just cruel lol. What makes it worse is that it's in wenyanwen (Classical Chinese) which is a lot harder to understand.

NNescio said:

Next let Kogasauthor read the Lion-Eating Poet.

By the gods, I just listened to this and I cannot even begin to differentiate any of the words.

NNescio said:

Next let Kogasauthor read the Lion-Eating Poet.

shí shì shī shì shī shì,
shì shī, shì shí shí shī.
shì shí shí shì shì shì shī.
shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí, shì shī shì shì shì shì.
shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì,
shǐ shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shí shì.
shí shì shī, shì shǐ shì shì shí shì.
shí shì shì, shì shǐ shì shí shí shī shī.
shí shí, shǐ shí shí shī shī,
shí shí shí shī shī.
shì shì shì shì

Just youtubed this, all i heard is a bunch of variety of shi, shui, siu, shieu, shui, shiue.. I guess being born in a nation with 700 regional languages and dialects doesn't automatically made my ear could discern it more than that..

Speaking of that Chinese variet(i)es/“languages”(/ethnolects/lects/jargons/whatever), since I see some people knowing up their shit (in) (t)here well…

Is there some GOOD (and readable for non-native English speakers) source explaining all those differences between the Traditional and Simplified (see European and USaian English xD), Cantonese (why city is not called like that anymore?) and Mandarin (likewise Peking, not much sense it makes), etcetera… ?

From what I am aware the “Traditional” is generally preferred style of writing their “alphabet(s)” (we call bushes) in the non-China (directly) controlled places like the Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau, but even spoken by the “Overseas Diaspora” like the famed Lee Kuan Yew (😆) most (un)famous leader of the Singapore (and generally by the “Straits Chinese” of all sorts).
Now situation with Taiwan aka Formosa is like that, there are those “Formosan A(b)bos”, the original Formosan (Straits) Chinese speaking the “Hokkien and Hakka” (South Chinese I believe?) AND the “Taiwanese Newcomers” from Kuomintang when they kept losing the Civil War (having hold only Southernmost Mainland parts, similarly to their Ming predecessor). Even as I’ve heard the relationship between all of those groups is sort of tsundere so to say…
I also always wondered why Japan never really bothered with proper colonisation of the Formosa under their leadership, I mean it’s so damn close to the Ryukyu which wasn’t really that much of a Japanese (more like Seres-Zipangese) for long time neither, same for the Ainu(/Nivkh/Orok/Related) lands like the unfamous Sakhalin and Kurils the Russians lost after the Russo-Japanese war epicly wrecked by based Meiji (why loser guy isn’t known as Nick II “the Weak and the Last”?). The original Formosa were the Ming Loyalists (muh “Mandate of Heaven”) and just hated the Japs/Nips, couldn’t have stand their presence there. Am I correct? Even less I understand use of the name Taiwan which I generally guess is of Chinese origins (likewise to Japanese Shonanto for Singapore), if they want to genuinely create the proper nationhood and unite all the people. The natives would obviously protest that, no? Same for the “Helvetia” and “Indonesia” (what a fugly colonial name, just like “Indochina” – I-It’s not like there were no two names for China in the antiquity/mediæval or anything, baka goyim…) casus.

NNescio said:

Next let Kogasauthor read the Lion-Eating Poet.

shí shì shī shì shī shì,
shì shī, shì shí shí shī.
shì shí shí shì shì shì shī.
shí shí, shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí, shì shī shì shì shì shì.
shì shì shì shí shī, shì shǐ shì,
shǐ shì shí shī shì shì.
shì shí shì shí shī shī, shì shí shì.
shí shì shī, shì shǐ shì shì shí shì.
shí shì shì, shì shǐ shì shí shí shī shī.
shí shí, shǐ shí shí shī shī,
shí shí shí shī shī.
shì shì shì shì

Damn it, I'm chuckling again even though I can barely read that correctly. I bet KogasaAuthor would overload and need to be pulled back into the main body....

And this is the same Kogasa-san promised to learn English after Anime Boston.... I think the author would explode first.

But now I'm looking Benben-san more and more....

Ketuuban said:

A lot of stuffs.

Jesus, calm down with your comment. I can't even understand everything you said.
You're insulting way too many things at once. Also, stop with the (), it's annoying.

Simplified Chinese is, as implied by its name, a simplified version of traditional Chinese. It is made to encourage more people to be able to read and write. It still has the same pronunciation and meaning, just different strokes in the characters. At least in most cases. That's what I know.

OMGkillitwithfire said:

It should be "Māma qí mǎ. Mǎ màn, māma mà mǎ". For Māma (mom in Chinese) the first ma's tone goes up (first tone) and then it drops at the second ma (no tone). Or at least that's what I was taught.
Also do note that Taiwanese Mandarin and Mainland China Mandarin are similar but different, the biggest one being Taiwan using Zhuyin fuhao while China uses Pinyin.

I just copied and pasted it after looking for the tongue twister. I have no idea on the accuracy as I'm not all that familiar with Mandarin. I would be as flummoxed as Kogasa, TBH. :D

Ketuuban, if you are going to complain about a language at least put a proper example and use simplified English grammar. That's something you could dominate easily.

Ketuuban said:

Is there some GOOD (and readable for non-native English speakers) source explaining all those differences between the Traditional and Simplified (see European and USaian English xD), Cantonese (why city is not called like that anymore?) and Mandarin (likewise Peking, not much sense it makes), etcetera… ?

The only difference between Traditional and Simplified are the writing of strokes of the characters.
Cantonese and Mandarin are dialects.

From what I am aware the “Traditional” is generally preferred style of writing their “alphabet(s)” (we call bushes) in the non-China (directly) controlled places like the Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau,

Taiwan was opposing China, so they decided not to switch. Hong Kong and Macau are not directly governed by mainland China, and they decided not to switch either.

but even spoken by the “Overseas Diaspora” like the famed Lee Kuan Yew (😆) most (un)famous leader of the Singapore (and generally by the “Straits Chinese” of all sorts).

That is simply because Simplified Chinese doesn't even exist when the great Mr. Lee Kuan Yew was learning how to write. Singapore is now officially using Simplified Chinese.

The rest are outright off topic

xahldera said:

Cantonese is worse. It has six tones. I get it wrong all the time due to my accent.

I gave up on Cantonese even though I'm one. I'm now a lot more comfortable with Hokkien. Coincidentally, them Taiwanese are Hokkien speakers as well (although they can immediately tell I'm not a Taiwanese when I speak it).

TunaMayo said:

Just youtubed this, all i heard is a bunch of variety of shi, shui, siu, shieu, shui, shiue.. I guess being born in a nation with 700 regional languages and dialects doesn't automatically made my ear could discern it more than that..

You're a PRC Chinese? Which dialect group do you being to, and how did you get around the Youtube block there?

Ketuuban said:

*bunch of crap*

You just insulted a lot of countries' history.

Having learned Simplified Chinese in Chinese school, but can understand some Traditional characters, my eyes are bleeding.

And this is coming from a guy who's family is Taiwanese! And my grandparents seem to only know traditional...

bigyihsuan said:

Having learned Simplified Chinese in Chinese school, but can understand some Traditional characters, my eyes are bleeding.

And this is coming from a guy who's family is Taiwanese! And my grandparents seem to only know traditional...

It's not that surprising really, especially elderly people from Taiwan, because they only learned traditional Chinese. In fact, most Taiwanese (according to a Taiwanese friend of mine) say that they don't know a thing about simplified Chinese.