Sad, and a bit depressing? Yes, probably. Disgusting? No. The focus of the story are the relationships and mythology. If it were a porn doujin that would show a bunch of guys raping Reimu, yeah, that might be disgusting for someone, but don't throw such words as "disgusting" about just because the story doesn't correspond with your view of Gensokyo. It's a goddamn doujin, anyway.
This is basically the same as what is happening in this doujin, dude. With the exception that it's only one guy.
And yes, a story can be disgusting even without explicity. There is no need for actual porn or gore. Sometimes implied events are worse than actually seeing them since they will occupy the mind for a longer time.
Not corresponding with my view? It's not even corresponding to general fanon or canon in the slightest.
I know, it's just a damn doujin, but somebody should have set up a warning about the contents and flow of events beforehand. Especially when the doujin is named "Lovely Dream". No one would have suspected something this fucked up.
As for me, it's the usual "Girl, usually the only surviving child, of important standing or family being put into an arranged marriage to ensure the bloodline." I'll enjoy what comes and how it plays out.
I don't sympathize in the slightest with the situation set up in this doujin, but I can see how it can make a good story, regardless of my personal views and opinions. I think it's good to know and try to understand visions that differ (sometimes radically) from our own, it helps keeping our minds open, even if we don't agree with them.
Also, I don't think the artist ever had the intention of portraying the forced marriage and pregnancy as something desirable or pleasant. Reimu herself seems very melancholic about all that, like in post #833916. It's something like the pain of having to fulfill your role in society and letting go of things you hold dear... but I digress.
Anyhow, I don't remember seeing the point of the Hakurei bloodline being explored either by canon or fanon, so I am curious about how this will turn out. The art is great and, although quite sad and tragic, I'm finding it pretty interesting so far.
Anyhow, I don't remember seeing the point of the Hakurei bloodline being explored either by canon or fanon
That's not true. We already know that the duties of Hakurei are not inherited by blood. Many times already had the position of the Hakurei miko to be appointed to a new fitting candidate since the old one died in battle. I think it was even stated that Reimu is one of the people who has hold out as Hakurei miko a especially long time. I think it's partly due to the new spellcard rules though. The way Aya talks about it really makes it seem like it doesn't matter who takes over the duties of Hakurei.
Given this fact, it's very likely (or inevitable) that Hakurei isn't even Reimu's real surname to begin with. That doesn't suprise me either since people in the past who devoted their life to the maintenance of a particular shrine often took over the name of that shrine or deity as their surname. The (real) Moriya are a good example for this.
Kuji-kiri said: That's not true. We already know that the duties of Hakurei are not inherited by blood. Many times already had the position of the Hakurei miko to be appointed to a new fitting candidate since the old one died in battle.
I'm pretty sure it was Aya who mentioned the disposability of the actual shrine maiden herself. So you could try searching for canon where she appears in. Don't quote me on Reimu being especially good though, that may be just fanon.
Kuji-kiri said: That's not true. We already know that the duties of Hakurei are not inherited by blood. Many times already had the position of the Hakurei miko to be appointed to a new fitting candidate since the old one died in battle.
Cite source on that, please. It seems vastly off from what I understand of Touhou's setting, and I suspect that particular nugget was invented for the sake of providing backstory to the Former Hakurei Miko of fandom.
Regardless, you also have a much too "Disney" ideal of love and marriage. Until fairly recently, marriage most often happened out of convenience, necessity, or politic. Love came about later.
Furthermore, I'm almost insulted that you would state that something as harmless - and, indeed, admirable - as acceptance of an important duty is tantamount to rape. On behalf of rape victims everywhere, knock it off.
Quoted from Aya in SSiB, after Reimu didn't return from the moon:
I suppose we'll have to find another shrine maiden before long. How many will this make anyway? It would be fine if it's someone who'll make lots of news for my paper, though."
There is more, I already had this discussion once. I will provide more later when I have time/motivation which is hard to bring up when you know nobody will read it anyway.
Also, it's pretty worrysome if you think acceptance of such a duty is anywhere near harmless to the one who has to bear it. It's a pretty twisted worldview that's long since outdated. People are not born with any debts or dutys, but the ones every human ought to shoulder. These however do not include this kind of self-sacrifice. Duty is always something you take up after being paid for it. I don't only mean material commodities here mind you. I have great respect for people who take up a task without being repaid in any kind of way(*), but that's only if they do it out of free will and without being influenced or coerced into it which is evidently not the case in this story. I will say it again. This is no better than rape. I will stop here since it felt like you just fired it of like that though.
(*)Actually, that's not possible since such people do repay themselves in a way. You probably know what I mean and I'm too lazy to stretch this. But this, too, is not the case here in this story.
I'm not going to make this into an Internet Philosophy Debate, and not on Danbooru, of all places. We can do this by private messaging, if you would like that.
However, I will say this: You're taking thought processes brought about by life in a modern world and a modern lifestyle, and you're applying them to an old-fashioned place like Gensoukyou. That's the wrong way to do it. Over there, where life is more rustic and simple, many things are done just because they have to be done. Reimu (and pretty much any other daughter of a shrine family, for that matter) was raised to know that this was one of her responsibilities, which she would have to fulfill eventually.
As for Aya's quote, it just sounds to me like there's a Hakurei branch family living somewhere in Gensoukyou. That wouldn't be at all unusual in shrine families; in fact, for some, only a branch member who has been sent to the main shrine and trained there can inherit the shrine. If that is so, it would make it unnecessary for Reimu to take on the duty of continuing the Hakurei line, but... this is a fan-work, and details like that are easy to gloss over.
Bottom line: Dude, drop the serious. It's ruining shit.
I have no interest in a discussion about morality on Danbooru either. So I will drop it without comment. I simply reacted to your statement.
applying them to an old-fashioned place like Gensoukyou.
While Gensokyo is old-fashioned in many regards, it's social structure can't even be compared to ours a few hundred years ago. The ones with power are always women here since they are the only ones to develop strong mystic abilities. The one who carries around the symbol for the head of the Hakurei Shrine, Reimu, is a girl, too. Life is generally much more comfortable in Gensokyo. People won't die from famine, no taxes, troublemaker are disposed of quickly, illness can be cured and there are no epidemics etc.
sgcdonmai said: Reimu (and pretty much any other daughter of a shrine family, for that matter) was raised to know that this was one of her responsibilities, which she would have to fulfill eventually.
Eh, no. The daughter of a shrine family would only be choosen as the next head out of desperation when there is no male candidate in the family. If that happens, which is pretty unlikely since the families were big, the daughter needs to marry someone who can perform the shrine's rituals and be the next head. But the kannushi has the power to appoint anyone as his next successor in his lifetime. (Again, Reimu already has this position while being a girl and a miko.)
sgcdonmai said:
As for Aya's quote, it just sounds to me like there's a Hakurei branch family living somewhere in Gensoukyou.
I thought what Aya said was pretty obvious, but I suppose you can interpret it in a myriad of ways if you really try.
She speaks of finding another shrine maiden, not choosing one of the other miko's to be the next kannushi. Her tone also makes it sound as if the collective of the old youkai need to do so, not some family head. (Actually, it would be Reimu's responsibility to appoint a new one if she could.)
There are only two shrines in Gensokyo, the Hakurei shrine and the Moriya shrine. There is no other place to learn the proper rituals. You'd think that apprentices would at least live there or visit the shrine and god they will devote their life to regularly if they really existed, but they don't. That's just ridiculous.
And I didn't even get to the part how a Hakurei shrine maiden needs to be able to exterminate youkai. But Reimu doesn't know of anyone with the same powers as her in Gensokyo, that's why she was so startled when she met one on the moon and trained there, not in Gensokyo.
I will stop here. There are better places for this kind of discussion. I will probably take this to the wiki when I got time, there are probably more people interested in it than here.
PS. Someone got the raws of SSiB? I want to make sure of the exact wording in the scene.
Kuji-kiri said: The daughter of a shrine family would only be choosen as the next head out of desperation when there is no male candidate in the family.
Except the head of the Hakurei Shrine is, essentially, both kannushi and miko at once. You've already pointed out that most of the power figures in Gensoukyou are female, so this is natural. It stands to reason, then, that the (female) head of the Hakurei Shrine has a duty to pass on the family line in some fashion, just as male kannushi in the outside world do.
I thought what Aya said was pretty obvious, but I suppose you can interpret it in a myriad of ways if you really try.
Things are never so obvious where translation has occurred. I, a translator myself, know this quite well.
She speaks of finding another shrine maiden, not choosing one of the other miko's to be the next kannushi. Her tone also makes it sound as if the collective of the old youkai need to do so, not some family head.
If the Hakurei Miko can't do it, then it's Yukari's job as the other top brass authority in Gensoukyou to pick.
Besides, I didn't specify "choosing one of the other miko". Not all members of a branch of a shrine family will automatically be selected to serve. The fact that they have Hakurei blood in them might well be enough.
(words) That's just ridiculous.
The training might not be done until they've been picked as a candidate.
But Reimu doesn't know of anyone with the same powers as her in Gensokyo, that's why she was so startled when she met one on the moon and trained there, not in Gensokyo.
Reimu didn't do any training on the moon. She upped her training to get to the moon.
PS. Someone got the raws of SSiB? I want to make sure of the exact wording in the scene.
Same here. Dmail me a link if you find one, would you? I can't find any, and it's been long enough since SSiB's translation was finished that the old threads at Voile have fallen off.
Makes me think that they've had to replace more than one of Reimu's successors during the 1000+ years Aya has been in Gensokyo or that Aya thinks they've had to, meaning that Reimu is somewhat expendable.
my idea on the topic is : there are no other members of the bloodline, and if there is any then they are infirtile, so she decides to put her personal feelings aside and do what is best for the shrine, in the socal sense it is a sacrifice of the indiviuals wants and needs for the better of the group, similar to when someone enters the military
thevoid said: it is a sacrifice of the indiviuals wants and needs for the better of the group
Yes, that's the point. Even though it's apparently something extremely hard to grasp for Kuji-kiri, some people do have a strong sense of duty and will act selflessly without anyone forcing them to.
true, the best possible outcome for this would probably be remiu becoming a celestial. but that would be very slim. still i find that this is remiu at her prime when it comes to responsibility, and i enjoy this fact
thevoid said: true, the best possible outcome for this would probably be remiu becoming a celestial. but that would be very slim. still i find that this is remiu at her prime when it comes to responsibility, and i enjoy this fact
Best? Not really. If Reimu becomes a Celestial, she will have to step down as miko of the Hakurei shrine. If she doesn't have doesn't have a successor, what then? It's not like she'll pass the whole package deal to the Moriya just like that.
No way...But...! There is no guarantee that Reimu's kid will have what it takes, right?!Along with the firm conviction of the people.Perhaps she wanted to hide it from you?If they hope for a hero, a hero will be made.It seems that girl has kept you in the dark.The Child of Hakurei must not allow her bloodline to die out, after all."What it takes" has nothing to do with it.
The fact is, the only thing needed to prop up "Hakurei" is the "Hakurei Bloodline".If an invincible hero can be summoned with a single coin, there would never be any hardship.
