It's true, though. I think I've seen more plot advancement in the two months of Fire Emblem Heroes being out than KanColle has seen in four years. Heck, the new battle modes went live today.
This makes me think what would happen should KanColle finally closes its server. How would it be portrayed in canon and artistic-semi-canon media? Without abyssals to fight, what would happen to the kanmusus? And the fairy-sans?
It's true, though. I think I've seen more plot advancement in the two months of Fire Emblem Heroes being out than KanColle has seen in four years. Heck, the new battle modes went live today.
Rather than the lack of plot, Ooyodo's actually poking fun at Kancolle's business model.
Based on the way Paracite interprets it, her exact words are more along the line of "Even though we do a lot of short-term contents, just getting to 4 years is worth congratulating."
Which is so absolutely true; 4 seasonal events per year with 1~2 Kai Ni quests in between and an additional world map roughly every half a year are pretty lacking for a game that somehow got this popular.
Though I supposed that's part of its charm. Rather than bombarding you with weekly updates like certain games, it acknowledges that players have other games too.
This makes me think what would happen should KanColle finally closes its server. How would it be portrayed in canon and artistic-semi-canon media? Without abyssals to fight, what would happen to the kanmusus? And the fairy-sans?
Some things are better left unanswered. pool #10978
This makes me think what would happen should KanColle finally closes its server. How would it be portrayed in canon and artistic-semi-canon media? Without abyssals to fight, what would happen to the kanmusus? And the fairy-sans?
I'm sure they will be fine. Life changes, yes, but those girls are smart, they will find a way. It's just like Kemono Friends. The park may be left in ruin, but the Friends will live on, happily even.
I'm sure they will be fine. Life changes, yes, but those girls are smart, they will find a way. It's just like Kemono Friends. The park may be left in ruin, but the Friends will live on, happily even.
Thanks for anime's success, they're planning for making new kemofre game. Their park won't ba a ruin anymore.
I'm sure they will be fine. Life changes, yes, but those girls are smart, they will find a way. It's just like Kemono Friends. The park may be left in ruin, but the Friends will live on, happily even.
Given that they're living on Naval bases, they'll have to get jobs like everyone else in the Muppo and 30 Year Old Yuubari comics.
Vezral said:
Rather than the lack of plot, Ooyodo's actually poking fun at Kancolle's business model.
Based on the way Paracite interprets it, her exact words are more along the line of "Even though we do a lot of short-term contents, just getting to 4 years is worth congratulating."
Which is so absolutely true; 4 seasonal events per year with 1~2 Kai Ni quests in between and an additional world map roughly every half a year are pretty lacking for a game that somehow got this popular.
Though I supposed that's part of its charm. Rather than bombarding you with weekly updates like certain games, it acknowledges that players have other games too.
This makes me appreciate what Intelligent Systems Co Ltd is doing with Fire Emblem Heroes even more. While the events aren't weekly, they drop new content in fairly frequently.
Rather than the lack of plot, Ooyodo's actually poking fun at Kancolle's business model.
Based on the way Paracite interprets it, her exact words are more along the line of "Even though we do a lot of short-term contents, just getting to 4 years is worth congratulating."
Which is so absolutely true; 4 seasonal events per year with 1~2 Kai Ni quests in between and an additional world map roughly every half a year are pretty lacking for a game that somehow got this popular.
Though I supposed that's part of its charm. Rather than bombarding you with weekly updates like certain games, it acknowledges that players have other games too.
Kantai Colleciton is also popular because it's one of the games where those who don't pay for much outside of larger barracks or polygamy. If you want another set of contructions in KanColle, go run expeditions. If you want another set of gachas in Fire Emblem Heroes, either wait for a month for enough orbs to come in the mail or limited-time quests to dole out 4 at a time, or you can fork over $13.33 per batch of 5.
In order to justify having that kind of ludicrous spendthrift habit, they focus on either using quests that force using characters players likely either won't have or wouldn't want to use or bother leveling, and multiplayer-ish modes, which also highlight the hacked game problems they have and are just starting to address. (Where people gave themselves unobtainable boss characters to put in their arena defense battles.)
Not having as much constantly generated content means it can be run cheaper, and it has to do less to nickle and dime its customers.
Kantai Colleciton is also popular because it's one of the games where those who don't pay for much outside of larger barracks or polygamy. If you want another set of contructions in KanColle, go run expeditions. If you want another set of gachas in Fire Emblem Heroes, either wait for a month for enough orbs to come in the mail or limited-time quests to dole out 4 at a time, or you can fork over $13.33 per batch of 5.
In order to justify having that kind of ludicrous spendthrift habit, they focus on either using quests that force using characters players likely either won't have or wouldn't want to use or bother leveling, and multiplayer-ish modes, which also highlight the hacked game problems they have and are just starting to address. (Where people gave themselves unobtainable boss characters to put in their arena defense battles.)
Not having as much constantly generated content means it can be run cheaper, and it has to do less to nickle and dime its customers.
And IS has been providing free heroes with various quests, plus bonus orbs on a regular basis (including those popularity contests which allowed people to get 20 bonus orbs). It can be done f2p easily - it's just they give you more ways to spend if you want to, and unlike KanColle, more ways to play if you aren't interested in grinding for resources to take part in the events which necessitate having spent the last two months or more gathering buckets, bauxite, and steel to prepare for those marathon runs to get a character.
The only quests which force you to use specific characters either involve free characters which you can get doing specific quests, or those quests involve low rewards like an orb or two which you can get other ways. It doesn't mean you must to grind a month for resources to participate in the seasonal events or have specific ships which were only available in specific events.
It may be cheaper to run KanColle the way they're doing it, but I don't know if it's a better GAME. It reminds me a bit of EVE Online, which requires a significant amount of time investment to enjoy. And spreadsheets.
It's true, though. I think I've seen more plot advancement in the two months of Fire Emblem Heroes being out than KanColle has seen in four years. Heck, the new battle modes went live today.
And IS has been providing free heroes with various quests, plus bonus orbs on a regular basis (including those popularity contests which allowed people to get 20 bonus orbs). It can be done f2p easily - it's just they give you more ways to spend if you want to, and unlike KanColle, more ways to play if you aren't interested in grinding for resources to take part in the events which necessitate having spent the last two months or more gathering buckets, bauxite, and steel to prepare for those marathon runs to get a character.
The only quests which force you to use specific characters either involve free characters which you can get doing specific quests, or those quests involve low rewards like an orb or two which you can get other ways. It doesn't mean you must to grind a month for resources to participate in the seasonal events or have specific ships which were only available in specific events.
It may be cheaper to run KanColle the way they're doing it, but I don't know if it's a better GAME. It reminds me a bit of EVE Online, which requires a significant amount of time investment to enjoy. And spreadsheets.
"More ways to play" means "pay (obscene amounts) to win". (Well, or cheat.)
I know you can do it without spending money - I'm sure not spending money - but they've also set up a system where the cost of entry is so ludicrously steep that it drives away far more people than it lets in. You're instantly affronted by the raw greed of seeing nothing but garbage 3*s like Raigh 3 times in a row in FEH, but an option to spend $13.33 for the chance that this time, you'll maybe get someone worth using with your 12th Raigh. By the time you even start to consider putting down money for extra rings in KanColle, however, you're probably pretty invested. FEH's paywall is a giant "fuck off" sign keep anyone who isn't a ludicrous whale from doing anything that isn't F2P, because seriously, you can get way better games than this in the $15 mark, and that's for a gacha spin that's almost certain to be more Naka-chan goddamn Raighs.
Also, don't say that forcing using Anna, Sharena, and Alfonse is somehow "generous". They're abject deadweights that drag down any team they're on, even if you take the positively INSANE step of spending 66,600 feathers on 5*ing all of them. Their garbage builds would even then demand you burn decent units for inherited skills, and even then, Anna's total lack of Def is a serious liability unless you're building a blitzkrieg team (and she's not really built well for THAT, either...).
And no, the Arena absolutely does force you to use characters you might not otherwise use. Granted, that's only if you care about feathers, but if you're playing F2P, YOU CARE ABOUT FEATHERS, because you're not getting enough 5*s to make it any other way. You'll also note that four of the ten slots are always the last four newly introduced characters - which guarantees that no matter what you have in your roster, there's a reason to spin that gacha another time - one of the other six seems to always be one of the three default characters, and the other five seem to be made up of random characters picked from the "less popular characters" pool to try to force players to mix their teams up.
Even saying "they let you complete quests to get new characters you need to complete more quests" is a dubious statement if the complaint is that you're constantly having to level up characters you don't want to fulfill arbitrary quest requirements. (THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT!) So, now, not only do I have to do a quest just to get a junk 3*, I now have to grind that 3* to level cap in just a few days to complete some 9th tier training quest with arbitrary conditions, all while hopefully still having a team that can function with a sandbag in the fourth slot. (And leveling some of these 3*s is damn near impossible because they just plain do not do damage unless you go to the extraordinary - and ultimately unsustainable - lengths of inheriting skills onto a unit you'll throw away after that quest is over. I'M LOOKING AT YOU, ROBIN! GET SOME GODDAMN ATTACK POWER!)
Besides, the only really good quests were the daily arena quests that gave you an orb and some chump change feathers if you did more arena battles. That actually gave you a reason to log in a few minutes every day outside of grinding more units you don't like, or ramming your level-capped "A-team" through tier 10 training for extra skill points in case you need to inherit more skills on them, later.
Yeah, sure, they mail you a drip feed of orbs, or occasionally a whole batch of 20 orbs for a special event like the popularity contest... but that's the thing - with this setup, they HAVE TO do that, because you can't get the ability to get more characters any other way. (And even if you get 20 orbs, you've got a ~75% chance of crap, and even that 25% is filled with 5*s you won't ever use.) KanColle, meanwhile, lets you just run however many expeditions you can handle whenever you want to gather hypothetically infinite resources into perpetuity without needing any sort of constant praying for the moderators to bring the rain from on high. It's the difference between being able to play a game, and waiting to be given permission to roll a die once or twice a month.
As a simple matter of course, just letting players play the game as they like to advance towards their goals instead of having to sit back and wait for permission that requires constant updates (most of which are nothing more than arbitrary hoops to jump through with no real content but a +1 to your inventory when you complete an arbitrary condition) is a far better business model and game model.
Mkv and other Japanese players have proven you don't need to pay to win - the heroes you get at 3* can do all the quests in the game if you're smart in how you fight, and throwing the wrong 5* characters will cause you to lose missions where all characters must survive if you're playing poorly. And with those free orbs, you can pull 5* heroes - it's just you can buy more orbs to get more pulls, with no guarantee that you'll get a 5* - any more than LSC guarantees that BB you want.
It's not like KanColle avoids it either with your being able to pay real money for DMM points to get resources or blueprints - the seasonal events and the sheer amount of resources they require to run to completion even if you do everything correctly are also designed to encourage it, just like the gacha pull in FEH does. The Arena doesn't force you to buy heroes - if anything, Skill Inheritance does, as you need spare heroes to pass skills onto others.... and even then, it's not mandatory as old heroes aren't automatically outclassed by newer ones the way they are in other gacha games.
And while you can play Spreadsheet Fire Emblem if you're obsessed with the Arena wins, you don't have to do the arena either. There's always regular content with events, quests that can be done with heroes (and the Flier Quests even supplied those heroes for you), and those come monthly or biweekly.
I'm certainly more interested in a game where you can F2P or spend money for extras... and not worry that you need to have exactly 5 submarines constantly running Orel or whatever to gather resources for the next few months to make sure you have the buckets or Bauxite / Fuel / Steel to even take part in the event on regular mode. Not to mention make sure you've enough Kai-2'd ships to survive hard.
While I may not be able to do the Lunatic quest that requires Wrys to survive, I'm only losing out on an orb. Not a special character who's event exclusive - heck, even the current GHB event only promises those spare characters I'd you didn't complete them the first time around... and if you can't do that quest for a second 4* Navarre, you promote the 3* who was relatively easy to get with Feather rewards they give out weekly. Or do Arena at a Beginner level for two weeks for a few sessions.
There's variety in FEH, which I prefer, especially with the new battle modes they're trialing in the new Chapter of the story which prioritize survival over the "attack attack attack" mindset which dominates the Arena.
I don't have to spend money to play the quests and the events, nor do I need to play daily for months to take part in them. In a worst case scenario, I can level a 4* hero up to level 40 to take part in specific quests in about a day if I use one of the free stamina potions given out weekly along with an orb or two (again, you get at least one a week, not counting quest rewards).
Mkv and other Japanese players have proven you don't need to pay to win - the heroes you get at 3* can do all the quests in the game if you're smart in how you fight, and throwing the wrong 5* characters will cause you to lose missions where all characters must survive if you're playing poorly. And with those free orbs, you can pull 5* heroes - it's just you can buy more orbs to get more pulls, with no guarantee that you'll get a 5* - any more than LSC guarantees that BB you want.
It's not like KanColle avoids it either with your being able to pay real money for DMM points to get resources or blueprints - the seasonal events and the sheer amount of resources they require to run to completion even if you do everything correctly are also designed to encourage it, just like the gacha pull in FEH does. The Arena doesn't force you to buy heroes - if anything, Skill Inheritance does, as you need spare heroes to pass skills onto others.... and even then, it's not mandatory as old heroes aren't automatically outclassed by newer ones the way they are in other gacha games.
And while you can play Spreadsheet Fire Emblem if you're obsessed with the Arena wins, you don't have to do the arena either. There's always regular content with events, quests that can be done with heroes (and the Flier Quests even supplied those heroes for you), and those come monthly or biweekly.
I'm certainly more interested in a game where you can F2P or spend money for extras... and not worry that you need to have exactly 5 submarines constantly running Orel or whatever to gather resources for the next few months to make sure you have the buckets or Bauxite / Fuel / Steel to even take part in the event on regular mode. Not to mention make sure you've enough Kai-2'd ships to survive hard.
While I may not be able to do the Lunatic quest that requires Wrys to survive, I'm only losing out on an orb. Not a special character who's event exclusive - heck, even the current GHB event only promises those spare characters I'd you didn't complete them the first time around... and if you can't do that quest for a second 4* Navarre, you promote the 3* who was relatively easy to get with Feather rewards they give out weekly. Or do Arena at a Beginner level for two weeks for a few sessions.
There's variety in FEH, which I prefer, especially with the new battle modes they're trialing in the new Chapter of the story which prioritize survival over the "attack attack attack" mindset which dominates the Arena.
I don't have to spend money to play the quests and the events, nor do I need to play daily for months to take part in them. In a worst case scenario, I can level a 4* hero up to level 40 to take part in specific quests in about a day if I use one of the free stamina potions given out weekly along with an orb or two (again, you get at least one a week, not counting quest rewards).
... And I just said that I don't pay money, and run end-game content, so why do you think I'm saying you HAVE to pay to win. I just said claiming "More Ways To Play" is just marketing bullshit speak for "you can either play the game this way, or you can spit out shit tons of money".
Yes, KC has a shop, too, but they're far less blatantly offensive about it, and most of what a player would want is far less pricey and actually guaranteed to get you what you were going for (a ring or expanded barracks versus another random gacha pull), and that was my point. $13.33 a spin of the wheel is INSANE, and so is anyone who actually spends that money, when you're going to need to hit the $40 mark just to start having the odds actually get up to about 50% chances for ANY 5*, not necessarily what you want. For that kind of money, you can buy a real game. And that's my point - the naked greed of the price gouging IS is doing here drives away anyone who isn't a lunatic whale from putting a single cent down on the game, while DMM can run a much cheaper operation charging more people less money.
And for the record, I have shit gacha luck (first 20 heroes were all 3*), and my main team only has one natural 5*, with the rest being promotions (and I still haven't even promoted one of them to 5*, yet). So, don't talk down to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. (Even while belittling the notion of people knowing what they are doing as "Spreadsheet Fire Emblem" because knowing what you're doing makes you a loser, and so does not knowing what you're doing... Having it both ways, much?) Yes, it's possible to run 3*s the whole non-arena game, but it's much, much harder than it's worth, (either requiring grinding lower-level training stratums for less EXP, using whole teams dedicated to buffing, healing, and dancing just one actual unit, and auto-battling first-stratum rounds to re-randomize the enemies and make sure there are no reds/magic-users/whatever the unit absolutely cannot handle), or will likely take a lot of cannibalizing through inheritance to make a lot of low-ATK 3*s (particularly infy, without the specific fortify or hone skills) viable.
Likewise, I'd like to see you run that L40 Navarre quest where you have to have Navarre be the one to kill Navarre with nothing but 3*s that lack any inheritence. (May those two thief units rot in Hell.) Considering as you just said you straight-up gave up on some quests because they're too hard... well, there you go, clearly YOU don't think it's worth the extreme effort, either. (I completed that quest using my hard-promoted mostly-5* team I made using feathers and cannibalizing other units, by the way.)
Saying "you don't have to play arena mode" may technically be true, but so is the statement, "you don't have to play Fire Emblem Heroes at all!" Arena mode is essentially the entirety of end-game content outside of one-shot gimmick events, most of which I can complete in the first day if they don't require grinding some random 3* to level 40, so if you're not playing Arena Mode, what are you doing? Furthermore, like I said, if you're not a whale, and you don't pay to win with 5*s, then you NEED feathers to promote your giant roster of 3*s to viable, even if just to cannibalize them for a tier-3 skill (which are never available on 3*s) once they hit 4*. Arena mode is BY FAR the best place to get feathers, and it's also the only place where you face real unpredictable challenges outside of being blindsided by the next arbitrary event requirement. ("Haha, suckers! Now win a tenth stratum training mission with only healers!")
That also brings up the difference between KC events and FEH events: KC events may be rare, yes, but they're also actual EVENTS, where players build up resources for a whole season just to prepare for the event they know is coming, and can reap tremendous rewards for their participation. Most FEH events are "we noticed nobody uses any fliers but maybe Camilla because 80% of teams run Takumi, and having units guaranteed to see their counter is just stupid, so now have an event that forces you to have an all-flier team just to punish you." KC will occasionally have events where you're heavily encouraged to have a certain unit, but the event is viable without it. FEH events are "You MUST use a team with 4 armors to beat this L40 map. Don't have 4 armors, or don't have 4 armors that aren't just Draug, or that will survive the two tome users we put in this map? FUCK YOU!"
Also, inheritance absolutely IS mandatory. All characters start with only 4 of their 6 (7 counting seals) filled, and running with empty skill slots when you could be filling them with ANYTHING that might be helpful is just shooting yourself in the foot before you even start. That doesn't even begin to deal with characters with great stats, but awful skills that become roving maelstroms of destruction with the right build. (I love you, Cecilia!)
So far as the "survival mode" goes, that depends a lot on how serious they are about it. So far, I just use my arena team, switching out Fury for Triangle Adept, because the only hits I need to take with a first-strike team is maybe one hit from Ike in that third mission (if I don't just run for the two rounds he'll actually move, which is totally viable since you only need to survive 6 rounds), as eliminating the enemy before they can strike back is still 100% viable, you just need to do it more.
That said, if it really does become a mainstay, that just means you'll need more than one "deck" for each play type, or alternate skill builds. (For example, keep running Fury 3, but make sure the unit has Renewal 3 to compensate... hang on, I need another Jakob to cannibalize...)
I'll grant that having actual tactical gameplay is better than KanColle, which is no small part of the reason why I bother playing FEH at all, however, their quest system is arbitrary bullshit.
There's also much less variety than you seem to let on. There's missions where you kill everything, missions where you kill everything, and missions where you have to survive 6 turns by killing everything. I largely use the exact same team for every single one of these missions unless there's an arbitrary requirement demanding I take a sandbag in as a handicap. (Even then, it's basically just "Wrys, you sit in the corner and play solitaire while the mages one-shot everything before they get an attack.")
This makes me think what would happen should KanColle finally closes its server. How would it be portrayed in canon and artistic-semi-canon media? Without abyssals to fight, what would happen to the kanmusus? And the fairy-sans?
IIRC the original plan for KanColle, before it became popular, was to end the game after some time by having the Abyssals overwhelm the base and everyone dies fighting. Luckily(?) HiraKo happened and this depressing end was shelved.
So to answer your question, that's one way: our shipgirls to die in a battle that can't be won. Probably would be used if the fanbase collapses.
On the fanon side, folks can portray a future where the Abyssals have been eliminated/subjugated but the shipgirls fight on, still in service to their governments, this time against each other.
I'm going to try Navarre 40 with a 4* Navarre once mine's up to 35, along with a few other 4*s and 5*s I've already got (and I got Takumi in neutral stats with my first set of orbs when the game started) along with my promoted GHB Ursula (who I might switch for a 4* Reinhardt) and I'll let you know how that goes. Those ninjas are murder in Lunatic,and did team barely cleared it last time with A!Tiki in his place.
I think KanColle succeeded initially because of decent art and character designs which got people attached to their shipgirl waifus along with the minimal but cute voice acting. God knows that's why I like the franchise (especially with his fans have run with the characters) - Ooi and Kitakami, along with the Fusou sisters, have my heart if not my wallet. I hate the gacha mechanics involved in LSC along with the random number gods being able to screw you over easily in battle... which I don't have to worry about as much with FEH.
I still dislike the gacha, though - I've yet to get Azura or Ryoma, and never did get Ike or Clair in the last focus... or, for that matter, any of the heroes in the previous focus save for an +ATK -RES Faye. What I like is that there is a bit more variety in the quests than the 'sink everyone, get resources' missions that seem to compromise the majority of missions in KC. Five mission types with variations in requirements (everyone survives, include a character, include certain colors or movement types) is still more varied than that.
And. I will give IntSys credit for listening to the feedback and making changes fairly quickly. Like when that first quest series that required specific character types (Armor) was later dealt with by offering characters who could complete those mission requirements as rewards for people who weren't putting money in.
I tend to vary my teams for missions, especially since March when they began specifically picking out team types. Plus, raising as many heroes as I can to 40 means I'm better prepared for the upcoming Xander and Veronica battles. I must complete my obsessive girl team soon (Faye, Tharja, and both Camillas currently comprise it).
I'm with Ooyodo in the end - I'm surprised how the game keeps going when with relatively low expenses. I don't expect this or FEH to last more than five years, but FEH is doing pretty well for a new gacha and it has some good deep pockets with Nintendo in the background. Plus, it's easy to play in short bursts, while KC needs some more dedication.
That, and the IP restrictions kept me from even trying in the first place.
But back to ido - Ashigara is the best waifu in his series.
IIRC the original plan for KanColle, before it became popular, was to end the game after some time by having the Abyssals overwhelm the base and everyone dies fighting. Luckily(?) HiraKo happened and this depressing end was shelved.
So to answer your question, that's one way: our shipgirls to die in a battle that can't be won. Probably would be used if the fanbase collapses.
Reminds me of a Lovelive!-ish school idol game on DMM. When the fanbase collapsed, they insert a story about idol project failed to save the school. This resulted in every idol involved the the project extremely disappointed, and eventually went into AV business in order to earn their living. In reality, the game changes its name and became a R-18 product, you now play as a newbie AV manager, seeking max profit for you and your girls. Guess who the starting characters are.
Kantai Collection has been in existence for 4 years? I must have relatively isolated (this game is not available in Singapore and the only reason why I know Kantai Collection is via Danbooru).
Vezral said:
Though I supposed that's part of its charm. Rather than bombarding you with weekly updates like certain games, it acknowledges that players have other games too.
*Stares at Candy Crush Saga with angry eyes (15 levels are released per week, has 2,480 + 665 levels and counting and are insanely difficult to complete if one goes for the no booster route. By the way, I used to play that game and quit at level 740).
Kantai Collection has been in existence for 4 years? I must have relatively isolated (this game is not available in Singapore and the only reason why I know Kantai Collection is via Danbooru).
I know some guys from SG who plays KC. The entire nihongo and VPN things are hardly hurdles anymore when you have yuubari KC player, Poi or even the KC3 Kai Chrome plugin. The last one having built-in translations. Which is like watching anime with subs. The few times you'll have to pay will be for extra repair docks and dorm place, and those are dirty cheap compared to gacha-based mobage like Granblue Fantasy or the more infamous, well for its gacha, Fate/Grand Order.
can't bear to scrap trophy dds? better buy more port slots.
your girls looking lonely at 99? Well...
if you're even casually idlecolleing around you can easily stack enough resources to clear events on easy and get the new girls. hell, softcap is probably fine for clearing events on easy.
i think the big resource demands are only for flexing with yamato medals and whatnot, or if you're super unlucky on drops and need to have that girl this event and not the next one
Vezral said: Though I supposed that's part of its charm. Rather than bombarding you with weekly updates like certain games, it acknowledges that players have other games too.
Top_Agent_PGG_jr. said:
*Stares at Candy Crush Saga with stern eyes (15 levels are released per week, has at least 2,300 levels and counting and are insanely difficult to complete if one goes for the no booster route. By the way, I used to play that game and quit at level 740).
Reminds me of a Lovelive!-ish school idol game on DMM. When the fanbase collapsed, they insert a story about idol project failed to save the school. This resulted in every idol involved the the project extremely disappointed, and eventually went into AV business in order to earn their living. In reality, the game changes its name and became a R-18 product, you now play as a newbie AV manager, seeking max profit for you and your girls. Guess who the starting characters are.
I'm going to try Navarre 40 with a 4* Navarre once mine's up to 35, along with a few other 4*s and 5*s I've already got (and I got Takumi in neutral stats with my first set of orbs when the game started) along with my promoted GHB Ursula (who I might switch for a 4* Reinhardt) and I'll let you know how that goes. Those ninjas are murder in Lunatic,and did team barely cleared it last time with A!Tiki in his place.
Well, it depends an awful lot on the whims of RNGesus, but my strategy basically amounted to "Use Hector". (My third 5*... but by that time, my team was set, and I hate slow units, so I've basically never used him, in spite of being one of the strongest units in the game.) Put Hector into the south-most forest in the fourth column of the map, and both thieves will attack him, then get countered to death. Hector will survive with only 7 HP or so, depending on IVs and if you buffed him, but after which, you can basically tell him to just sit in the corner and suck his thumb waiting for post-fight healing. After this, you only need a blue tome user and one other red to complete the battle. Blue tome user (can be just about anyone, so long as they can hit hard enough to drop enemy!Navarre to crit damage - so no Robins or unbuffed Odins - but not so hard they kill Navarre themselves - so no Linde), then hits enemy!Navarre to low health, and your!Navarre finishes him off for arbitrary quest condition requirements. After that, a red unit picks off that hammer unit. I used Cain, because he's cavalry and I like 3 movement points, and he's part of my main team, anyway. (One of my promotions to 5*.) You then take damage from the lone priest, but you can almost certainly survive that unless your red unit ate serious counterattack damage, and he's roadkill on your next turn.
If you don't have Hector, my best advice would be to go for a pair of fliers or a flier and an armor with high single-attack power (like Effie with a brave lance) that are beefy enough to take one of the thieves, apiece. Keep in mind, the more troublesome northern thief has a bowbreaker skill, but an archer (especially Setsuna, who has a daggerbreaker bow) is potentially viable on the south if you have something like a flier swing northwest to bait the northern thief. Kagero would be useful if you have her, but she's also impeded by the forests and I'm not sure she can get to a point where only the northern thief would reach her. (Fliers can obviously negate the problem of all those forests.) Then, have the same blue tome user to weaken enemy!Navarre, and then have your!Navarre finish him off. To beat the hammerer, you probably need to have triangle adept inherited to Navarre, but that's fairly common, so you shouldn't have much trouble with finding a duplicate with triangle adept lying around. Alternately, you can use a fairly powerful red tome user, like Lilina, to weaken Navarre, then use her to wipe out the hammerer next turn.
The biggest problem, either way, is having something that can survive the first strike of one of the thieves, then kill it in the next turn. They have ludicrously high speed, and you likely won't survive the counterattack, so brave weapons or something like Defiant Attack would be a good idea. (In fact, their stats are basically like Takumi... with debuffs. So basically, you need two units that can counter Takumi in your party.) Putting shurikenbreaker on a ranged unit would be ideal, but that only comes on Kagerou, and how many players have spare Kagerous lying around?
Jarlath said:
I think KanColle succeeded initially because of decent art and character designs which got people attached to their shipgirl waifus along with the minimal but cute voice acting. God knows that's why I like the franchise (especially with his fans have run with the characters) - Ooi and Kitakami, along with the Fusou sisters, have my heart if not my wallet. I hate the gacha mechanics involved in LSC along with the random number gods being able to screw you over easily in battle... which I don't have to worry about as much with FEH.
I still dislike the gacha, though - I've yet to get Azura or Ryoma, and never did get Ike or Clair in the last focus... or, for that matter, any of the heroes in the previous focus save for an +ATK -RES Faye.
This is somewhat like the argument I've had about how "hard" Dark Souls is "because you die alot". If "how often you die" is the metric of difficulty, then Hotline Miami, I Wanna Be The Guy, or Super Meat Boy are some of the hardest games to exist, but you'll also notice that those three games also have negligible penalties for death, while Dark Souls is fairly strict. You don't die often in Dark Souls, but death is punished heavily enough that you're actually afraid of dying, wheras in Hotline Miami, you'll gleefully throw yourself blindly into the mix to experiment on some half-thought-out idea because there's no real penalty for failure.
I greatly prefer KanColle's construction system over FEH's because I only get 2-3 spins of the gacha per MONTH on FEH, so every Raigh is just telling me all those quests I spent all my time working to complete were utterly useless, and I may as well not even try playing anymore.
With KanColle, constructions aren't nearly so painful if you fail... which is good, because you will fail a lot. Yes, LSC is way more painful, but it's also a separate, special form of construction explicitly for high-risk, high-reward behavior that you only deal with once you have tremendous resources to burn. KC actually separates out constructions so that you can spend few resources early on while aiming for particular types of units versus the LSC. FEH, meanwhile, demands Yamato from basically level 20 onwards, and every construction has to be LSC.
Jarlath said:
What I like is that there is a bit more variety in the quests than the 'sink everyone, get resources' missions that seem to compromise the majority of missions in KC. Five mission types with variations in requirements (everyone survives, include a character, include certain colors or movement types) is still more varied than that.
And. I will give IntSys credit for listening to the feedback and making changes fairly quickly. Like when that first quest series that required specific character types (Armor) was later dealt with by offering characters who could complete those mission requirements as rewards for people who weren't putting money in.
The real question is why they ever thought that many players would be able to field an entire team of four armors to start with, especially since armors are both the rarest type (outside of Draug, the most useless one) and so ludicrously niche to begin with?! (NOBODY runs a team of four armors... and outside of Hector, a team of four armors is basically guaranteed roadkill of any half-decent tome user. Hell, my Cecilia is even tuned to one-shot Hector, and Leo could basically solo an armor team.) Rather than praising them from learning from such an obvious, bone-headed blunder fairly quickly, why not ask why they made such a mistake in the first place?! For people that make strategy games all about thinking your actions through to their consequences, they sure didn't think too hard on that one...
And anyway, that was the last quest I didn't even bother trying to complete. (If for no reason other than not even having 4 armors at the time... unless you count putting the 1* and 2* Draugs in, but screw that!)
Beyond that, "kill all enemies" and "kill all enemies while having to use this unit" isn't really all that much variety. Also, I don't get how you complain about how KC "forces" you to run 5 subs through Orel (which is very lucrative, but entirely optional) as having a lack of variety, but praise FEH for outright demanding particular units as being the variety you desire?
Jarlath said:
I tend to vary my teams for missions, especially since March when they began specifically picking out team types. Plus, raising as many heroes as I can to 40 means I'm better prepared for the upcoming Xander and Veronica battles. I must complete my obsessive girl team soon (Faye, Tharja, and both Camillas currently comprise it).
You really do want to try to migrate towards a single "A Team", especially for the arena, if only just because inheritence does get really expensive. (Not just in characters, but also in SP - most tier-3 passives are going to run you 525 extra SP, plus 225 for assists, or 450 for a 2nd-tier special. Level 40 characters can grind 8th-10th stratum training tower for 1-3 SP a kill, but that's basically 9 stamina/45 minutes for at most 12 SP.)
Tharja is good for a unit without inheritance, but you might want to consider cannibalizing some of your -blade tomes onto units that can make the most use out of your buffs. You might want to see this post's comments. Or, for that matter, this post's actual content. If you trade in at least Tharja for some other fliers with Fort and Hone Fliers, and inherit Gronnblade onto Spring Camilla, you can make a downright deadly "Birds of Prey" team. (Although Hinoka is annoying hard to come by.) Just be aware you're playing rocket tag with any archers.
Jarlath said:
I'm with Ooyodo in the end - I'm surprised how the game keeps going when with relatively low expenses. I don't expect this or FEH to last more than five years, but FEH is doing pretty well for a new gacha and it has some good deep pockets with Nintendo in the background. Plus, it's easy to play in short bursts, while KC needs some more dedication.
Which can alternately be spun as KC is a game you can play as much as you want to play it, while there are serious complaints about how little you're allowed to play FEH. (Yes, that article was written back when the training tower cost twice as much stamina, and the stamina bar only contained four hours of recharge time, but that's part of the overall point of "really screwing this one up out the door, and having to patch it later"...) Outside of grinding up a new character on those low-stratum training maps, I'm pretty much flat-out not allowed to play FEH more than 30 minutes a day, no matter how much time I want to spend on it. As M Q N put it, you can play KanColle more casually if you don't mind not going on the grueling Hard maps.
It's also the problem that I keep coming back to: Yes, there's a constant drip of some new content, but FEH is also set up so that it REQUIRES constant content. You can't even do Gachas AT ALL without there being some kind of special promotion with focus units, so yes, they're absoultely mandatory to have some sort of "new content" quest set every few weeks, even if it's a fairly lazy recycling of old content. (Let's just reuse our old Navarre and Robin maps with even more annoying requirements!) KanColle is designed so that there's always content there to reliably keep players occupied however long they want to be occupied, with quarterly events being huge deals that players plan around for months in advance to give the veterans something to look forward to and build up towards. FEH needs constant drip-feeds of content just to give players a reason to log on at all, and all their goals are attainable within a week or two.
I also don't see Kantai Collection dying any time soon. It's just too popular, and even if it doesn't make that much money, so long as it stays cheap to produce, and it keeps pushing the third-party merch, it just wouldn't make sense to pull its plug. As previously mentioned, the anime means that Kemono Friends is getting a new mobile game. Kantai Collection, meanwhile, managed to be popular enough to drag up its really mediocre anime, and keep getting it a movie and new season. Kantai Collection is the only thing that rivals Touhou on the doujin market, so it just has too much of a positive feedback loop to die off anytime soon.
FEH is far more fragile, and even with some inherent support base from Nintendo and the franchise it's built on, it's still more niche and more exclusively dedicated to that niche fanbase. Since they charge SO MUCH for the only things you can buy, which are so very likely to result in disappointment and throwing your phone away in disgust, I get the sense that they're very likely to milk their whales dry, and dump the project long before KC stops coming up with ways to turn its runaway popularity into merch.
You can talk about "adding story content", but every review of FEH says the story is by far the worst part of the game, and I've never seen a "throw every character and the kitchen sink into a giant stew" game have an even decent plot on its own since such stories inherently kill all chances at characterization. KC works because it recognizes it shouldn't even try to have a plot, outside of whatever the fans want to create for it, which is why there are so many radically different interpretations of canon into fanon in the fanbase... meanwhile, the static, somewhat explained canon of FEH makes very little sense, has no dramatic stakes, and is not any more compelling than KC's total black box.
... And then IS goes and releases its new monthly quests, and one of them is "complete 10 missions in the 10th stratum with an all-armors party". So much for learning from past mistakes, and letting users get all the characters they need to actually complete the quests!
And here, I was worried that I was being a fool, trying to "fight the last battle" by prepping a level 40 Effie, Zephiel, and Sheena to go along with Hecter as a level 40 all-armor team (including promoting a sacrificial Gwendolyn just to pass on Hone Armor), but it turns out the joke wasn't on me, after all.
In fact, after building a flying fort/hone team for the Flier Mastery quests, the only one of those quests I think I'll actually really have trouble with at this point is the "all infantry" quest, since I just plain don't have any of the good infantry units. (At least, not at 5*. I guess I've got Nino and Eirika, but without Siglinde, that's much less powerful.) If I want to go with my 5* infy, all I have is Spring Chrom, Karel, Merrick, and Lucius. Wooo.
With all that short-term content that we've got, just getting to 4 years of continued service is worth congratulating!4 years of Kancolle!
Congratulations!But that's just a statement from HQ, right?And that they are recapturing control of the seas.Well, to be frank,Congrats!How goes the war in general?No... is it really something to congratulate?That means we're into our 5th year fighting the Abyssal fleet.We've been getting more and more battles in the seas close to the mainland.And we're always busy with all those operations that've been bestowed upon us...According to the statement from headquarters, humanity is winning the war against the Abyssal fleet.Suddenly going all meta on me...