cape "vs" cloak

At the moment the cape and cloak tags seem to be being used in the exact same way, although cape has more posts.

So, what's the difference between the two? I've always seen cloak as a hooded cape myself, but I know others may not see it that way.

What should be done? Alias? Tag merge? More clarification and tag cleanup?

From wikipedia:

"In fashionwear, the word cape usually refers to a shorter garment and cloak to a full-length version of the different types of garment, and though the two terms are sometimes used synonymously for full-length coverings, the shortest versions are never referred to as cloaks."

If anything cloaks are a subset of capes, and if we were to merge, alias, etc, I'd suggest cape over cloak.

Edit: Oops, mixed things up there a bit

I've always gone by that if it covers only the back it's a cape, and if it pretty much can completely cover the front it's a cloak. Though the problem with that is of course artists want to usually show off as much of the character underneath the cloak and usually have the cloak positioned in such a way as to make them hard to tell the difference.

I'd honestly prefer they not be merged or aliased, but what I prefer and what should be done don't always match up. If they are to be aliased, I think it should be cape -> cloak. Though that's probably because I'd never be able to imagine anything with the word cape as anything but something that covers only the backside (I blame super heroes).

The easiest method would be to simply merge them, as the difference is fairly minor. The harder method would be to try and clean them up. I don't see why we can't do the harder method though, since we're doing that with grey_hair and silver_hair (which imo is still going as awkwardly as it ever has).

BTW, from the same wikipedia article: "A cape is a type of clothing, and can be used to describe any sleeveless outer garment, such as a poncho, but usually it is a long garment that covers only the back half of the wearer, fastening about the neck."

A cloak may have slits in the front for the arms to come through and/or pockets and perhaps a hood. A Cape has none of these.

cloak -> hooded garment
cape -> shoulder garment.

unicogirl said: cloak -> hooded garment
cape -> shoulder garment

I can live with that, unless someone had a good reason not to.

I'd argue against using the hood, because if the hood is down it may not be obvious. There is also a hood tag that can be used to distinguish between when a hood is used or not, so if you're going by hood the argument could just as well go for an alias and using something like a cape hood search. There are also things like post #461910, which at least for me is something I wouldn't call a cloak.

Besides the hood the only other major difference is whether it covers all the way around or just predominately the back of the character, which is the way I'd rather have it.

Are you referring to ones that go around the neck area?
Then it does become both terms with no issue, but that is usually when it is shorter (from what I see).

I was thinking of ones that go from the head to the ankles to be cloaks.

A cape is an accessory, generally attached to the garment via buttons or being stitched on, while a cloak is an overgarment that rests on the shoulders. Cloaks also generally have clasps on the front to keep them in place.

Capes tend to be for fashion or visual effect while cloaks often are used to insulate the wearer from weather, which is why they usually have hoods.

Probably the best method to tell the difference is where the cloth starts, if it wraps the shoulders and parts of the front of the body it's a cloak, and if it starts at the shoulders or only could cover the back of the body it's probably a cape.

How about turning it into "Hooded Cape" or "Hooded Cloak"?
It would eliminate at least one.

I don't think, for example, Ishida Uryuu's little cape could ever be described as a cloak, however length isn't everything since superheroes are renowned for wearing capes, and they are often full bodied.

How about examples - cloak or cape?

post #136713
post #172142
post #332774

Bumps

wanchan said:
How about examples - cloak or cape?

post #136713
post #172142
post #332774

Those are pretty easy. post #136713 and post #332774 are both capes because they don't cover the front at all. While it might be somewhat difficult post #332774, that cape is actually a shorter length on the front and not simply the wind or whatever blowing a cloak back and open. post #172142 is covered up so it's actually impossible to really tell what she is wearing and likely shouldn't have either the cloak or cape tags, though if it was one or the other it's a cloak because it covers the front.

unicogirl said:
Bumps

I still completely disagree on how you want to determine what is a cloak or cape. The presence of a hood shouldn't be used as the determining factor.

A cape is a fashion item.

A cloak is a utility garment.

As for where to draw the line, I don't see why we shouldn't go with the distinction Suiseiseki brought up earlier. And if there's a hood, just add the "hood" tag, no need for hooded_cape/cloak.

I agree with NWF Renim on post #332774 and post #172142, but post #136713 is definitely a cloak to me. Were she to put her arms down the material would probably cover her completely.

NWF_Renim said:
I still completely disagree on how you want to determine what is a cloak or cape. The presence of a hood shouldn't be used as the determining factor.

Um, that's fine. That is what the topic is for, discussion.

So I wasn't expecting my suggestion to be the end all solution. I was also looking at the dictionary on an idea too. You make it seem like I was forcing things on people.

=
Whatever makes it easier for people to sort things would be fine.

I really don't have an answer or preference here. If you want to use how much of the front it covers, go ahead.

I think it's a judgement call in some cases. Like, for me, post #136713 is very firmly a cape. My rationale for this decision is basically that, while it may provide incidental insulation, its primary function seems to be artifice. I think post #172142 might actually be a robe, but it's too hard to tell. Are we at least all in agreement that post #486194 features a cloak while post #588469 is a cape?

And for more rabble-rousing, what's the thing Battler's got in post #589608? I'd again argue cape for reasons stated, but am interested in other opinions.

Probably the only reason I feel that post #136713 is a cloak is just because she's a vampire. Vampires use them to impede weather (sun). I'd not be hurt if it was called a cape.

Well it can be subjective, I feel pretty confident post #136713 would not actually cover the front at all. If you look at where the clasp is that fastens it, the material on the front goes straight down and there is clearly a corner at the bottom of that. If it was intended to cover the front it should be just straight, the 90 degree corner there would indicate that the material lengthens as it goes away from the front, so the front would be exposed.

DschingisKhan said:
Are we at least all in agreement that post #486194 features a cloak while post #588469 is a cape?

And for more rabble-rousing, what's the thing Battler's got in post #589608? I'd again argue cape for reasons stated, but am interested in other opinions.

I can't really tell what post #486194 is, but if I had to choose one I'd go with cloak. I'd be fine calling post #588469 a cape. post #589608 is fairly ambiguous, I think it's probably a cloak. The difference between the two tags will always have these gray areas, and for them we probably should just tag it as both cape and cloak tags (similar with how other cases of ambiguity have been resolved).

We should consider that cape will be a more general tag than cloak, and may cover instances in which a cloak shares a visual similarity to a cape by being swept back leaving the front revealed.