ex-meiling
Unlike ex-keine or ex-rumia, this one has no focus.
Even after the removal, relevant images can still be found in
pool #1442 - Touhou - Extra Stage girls
Updated by Rampardos
Posted under General
ex-meiling
Unlike ex-keine or ex-rumia, this one has no focus.
Even after the removal, relevant images can still be found in
pool #1442 - Touhou - Extra Stage girls
Updated by Rampardos
im curious to what is the relevance of this to pool #4492? is this going to be converted to pool instead? thanks.
EDIT: making a report in the pointless pools. thanks.
Updated
from forum #68729:
jjj14 said:
Seems to me like "Hong Meiling Not playing around anymore, and showing her baddass side." is covered quite well by searching for hong_meiling pool:1277, so maybe we don't even need this subjective ex-meiling tag.
You could argue ex-meiling should be limited in the same way ex-rumia is and consist of her in "dragon mode".
ie
post #373038
post #459136
post #207282
and to a much lesser degree
the former being much more appropriate then the latter.
Updated
Nowhere_Man said:
I expected the version with horns and dragon_tail, but those 4 images don't have much in common.
StriderTuna said:
I think the tag was originally made as to help folks find pictures of Meiling where she's not basically a gag character.
It would be useful IF the majority of hong_meiling images depicted her as a gag character. (They don't)
Even if such a tag (comic relief character being badass) were useful, I wouldn't want to limit it to a single character.
S1eth said:
I expected the version with horns and dragon_tail, but those 4 images don't have much in common.
The first 3 show a transformation of some type along with anger.
The first is just the eyes, second eyes and horns, third eyes and scales starting to grow on her hands and face.
The common theme for the first 3 would be "anger" and a change in the eyes to a more reptilian/dragon style.
Meiling via anger transforming into her "dragon mode" does seem to go beyond badass.
So to me ex-mode for Meiling involves two things
1. Anger.
2. Transforming into a dragon.
The exact nature horns/wings/eyes/etc. can vary but the transformation does have to be fairly obvious.
Nowhere_Man said:
So to me ex-mode for Meiling involves two things
Since there is no canon ex-mode Meiling, what makes her "ex" differs very much from person to person.
Nowhere_Man said:
1. Anger.
2. Transforming into a dragon.
Only good we have the angry and transformation tag.
S1eth said:
Since there is no canon ex-mode Meiling, what makes her "ex" differs very much from person to person.
No canon ex-rumia either. The concept for her is subjective as well.
Rumia - Generally adult, usually sword.
Meiling - Some sort of transformation into a dragon.
Only good we have the angry and transformation tag.
meiling and transformation might cover the concept but it also might be atm a 3 tag search.
I think what we really need is to see if there is a consensus on Pixiv and go with that (similar to the whole myon thing)
ex-rumia is all about removing her ribbon. The rest of the wiki just describes what is commonly seen in those images. They are not tagging criteria.
By having a clear focus, ex-rumia is a taggable concept. (It's not the best concept, I give you that, but the opposition would be huge if I requested its deletion)
Nowhere_Man said:
meiling and transformation might cover the concept but it also might be atm a 3 tag search.
Fine by me. As I said, you can still use pool #1442 hong_meiling. Please don't try to come up with some ridiculous definition that can't be covered by 6 tags and pretend that there will be more than a single person ever wanting to search for that.
Your 3-tag definition already diverges from the original pixiv tag, which includes ALL images of Meiling being badass/serious AND/OR a dragon girl.
They even tagged post #919719. The pixiv tag is a lost cause. Luckily, we have no obligation to mirror pixiv tags. We already have an extensive tag base allowing us to use our existing tags to find all these concepts.
The myon case was not influenced by the pixiv tags, but by the general usage of myon as a nickname for Youmu.
I will finish with this since we are not going to agree I suspect.
If in fanon ex-mode for meiling is defined on pixiv (since it is our source for most fanon images) as it is defined for Rumia then a few things could/should happen.
1. Ex-meiling goes as well as Ex-rumia.
2. Ex-meiling stay as well as EX-rumia.
The Extra Stage pool itself is debatable (useful if the EX tags are removed) less useful if they are not.
It really comes down to whether or not the concept of ex-meiling exists in the same way it does for rumia. That should be the decider.
The issues with the poor tagging and definition for ex-meiling would be easy to fix either way (removal or "official" fanon consensus)
P.S.
The myon example was not great I admit.
P.P.S.
We need a third opinion here.
I would say EX-Meiling should exist ONLY for Dragon-Meiling images, because there at least seems to be some fanon theme surrounding that. Just being badass or clad in fancy clothes should not warrant the tag, because then we'd have EX-everybody tags whenever someone gets a power-up.
The only part I'm not sure about is the fact a tag combo of Meiling, transformation and dragon would probably be able to duplicate that, but it might maybe get a pass for being a character spinoff?
imho, it's fine for me if ex-meiling stays. there's a community behind it and members are using it for some time now. 140+ posts show. however, is it a bit excessive and subjective for danbooru? i find it as a yes for both. so if asked for removal, i would vote for a yes. same goes to izayoi_sakuya_(young), ex-keine, and ex-rumia; even if there will be a strong opposition. it's just my opinion anyways.
a quick pixiv search EX็พ้ด shows a lot of Hong Meiling pictures not in dragon girl mode, angry, or even in transformation. it's really about being " in a very serious manner" or "badass" as in the now-deleted pool.
if we are going to redefine the wiki to "dragon mode" and such only then we are going to lose a significant portion of pixiv posts, where according to the very wiki says, "Images of this are almost always from pixiv".
i'm not going to use the existence of ex-keine and ex-rumia for justification of ex-meiling, because these open up the possibility of EX-everybody tags whenever someone gets a power-up, as Arrei has pointed out earlier.
a possible solution maybe for viewing, we could all add them in their respective pools like pool #1442: Touhou - Extra Stage girls and pool #1277: Badass. for searching, adding angry, transformation, dragon girl or even the underused power tag. the last one was discussed in forum #67760 but no final decision yet for its use.
if ex-rumia is about having no ribbon, how about a no_ribbon tag? a simple taggable concept not limited to one character.
if ex-keine is about growing a pair of horns how about horns kamishirasawa_keine search? or use the alternate costume tag for the green version of her dress. just my 2 cents.
thanks.
Now you're shooting way too far, especially on the ex-keine tag. EX-Keine is a canon variation of a character and cannot be replicated by a simple Keine + Alternate Costume search for all sorts of reasons, such as the fact that EX-Keine doesn't need to be wearing her green dress to be EX-Keine, the common depiction of EX-Keine as Sukusuku Hakutaku or a green cow, and so on. Just because EX-Keine has horns as part of her design doesn't mean you can just tag her by going Keine + Horns, either, much like how we don't tag other characters simply using their usual appearances.
As for EX-Rumia (as well as EX-Keine), the tag serves to denote their alternate forms, much like other characters who receive alternate forms and are tagged appropriately, i.e. hatsune_miku_(append) or cirno-nee, and EX-Rumia is pretty clearly defined in the fandom as what happens if Rumia's ribbon was actually a seal and her power was released. There's no reason whatsoever to remove that tag. A proposed "no ribbon" tag would also have zero worth, then we'd have to do "no X" tags for every time a certain character is lacking a piece of clothing they normally wear. No skirt, no belt, no tie, no shirt, no shoes, no service.
That still leaves us with the question of what to do with "EX-Meiling", though. Since the Pixiv results for EX-Meiling lack any real theme other than "Meiling being badass" with an occasional dash of "Meiling as a dragon", it cannot be accurately compared with EX-Keine (being a canon variation) and EX-Rumia (being very clearly defined as a variation).
Therefore, EX-Meiling's existence is, currently, independent of the other two EX tags. We are left with two options:
A. Because our tag exists solely because of the Pixiv tag, and the Pixiv tag itself lacks any real taggable focus of worth, we simply nuke the tag and that's the end of it.
B. Or, because depictions of this "badass Meiling" seem to have spawned a second somewhat-common "Meiling is actually part dragon" theme, we prune the EX-Meiling tag to tag posts where Dragon!Meiling appears as suggested earlier. In this option, all we're doing is taking the pre-established moniker of "EX-Meiling" and sharpening the focus - it would at the same time both be and not be the Pixiv EX-Meiling tag. It would exist because Pixiv has it, but we would have narrowed its scope to give it taggable worth here.
Well now, this discussion got rather wall-of-textish, didn't it?
Updated
forum #70358 reminded me that we haven't reached a conclusion here.
There's already pool #1277, pool #1442, transformation, animalization (-panda), and dragon tags. EX-Meiling is extremely redundant no matter how you define it, and I think this thread has expressed that pretty clearly with little support for keeping it. It should go.