Should first-time uploaders really be able to upload many images at once?

Lacrimosa said:

I'll take a major look at your uploads now.
If you've still questions about some posts, don't hesitate to ask in the other topic.

E: Done
I have to make sure that I was also not doing great the last few months.
Mainly because the workload was way too high for me to keep up. Looking through 100 images is really taxing over time, especially when there are absolute awful images amongst those (I don'T think I'd say your current upload from the last months are awful, though).

The (new) system falls apart if there no approvers to look through the posts. Moreso in this new system because users are supposed to get a slot back after an approval.
We've gotten new approvers lately and I think the workload has overall reduced because more users are actively approving now and that also motivates older approvers to restart again and they don't just do the obligatory daily approval..

Thank you. Much appreciated. I will look through the rest of the deleted stuff and definitely try to appeal the ones that are good enough.

I am sorry you had to deal with that amount to go through, I definitely understand better now.
Yes, I'm not against the new system at all if everyone gets their uploads actually checked, but I just get frustrated sometimes when they are clearly not even looked at.

Again, thanks for your constant help since I joined, you've made my stay a lot more enjoyable.

nonamethanks said:

Very few approvers look at all posts, so yeah, the amount of people who consistenly see your posts might be around 10 or less.

http://isshiki.donmai.us/user-reports/approvers/%21CURRENT.html

Based on the six approvers with zero disapprovals, is it safe to assume that the number of approvers that looked at each post before its deletion may actually be higher than what the "It has been reviewed by X approvers" message suggests? Otherwise, it would seem that half a dozen approvers are approving literally every post that they see, which is quite hard to believe.

I know that at least one approver has indicated a preference not to use the moderation queue, so it doesn't surprise me if there are others who feel the same.

It seems like this has been mostly solved thanks to Lacrimosa, but I just wanted to address a few points made.

CuteBara said: (excerpt)

I mean most of my posts are from tweets that have thousands of likes which means they're at least likeable...

From my own experience, I've seen posts on Twitter with 10K+ likes which do absolutely horrible on this site, and vice versa. The favorite count/score on whatever site the images are originally hosted on have no bearing on their appropriateness nor their approve-worthiness for this site.

CuteBara said: (excerpt)

Isn't being unappealing pretty subjective... I have over 700 uploads approved so saying "most" of my uploads are unappealing is pretty harsh..

The word unappealing is subjective... yes. However...

Post search: user:CuteBara rating:safe limit:200 age:1w..

Post search: male_focus rating:safe limit:200 age:1w..

Post search: rating:safe limit:200 age:1w..

The above statistics were pulled from the first page of both post searches with my DisplayPostInfo userscript (topic #15926).

So while unappealing is indeed in the eye of the beholder, your posts are less appealing than the median appeal interest for this site, and slightly below the male focus median appeal for this site.

CuteBara said: (excerpt)

...it seems the whole system just isn't welcoming to new users at all, especially when they're not interested in girls...

Welcome to Danbooru... with a user base that is mostly interested in girls, which caters to users that are mostly interested in girls. If you want a site that tailors to those interested in guys... look around for a different site which supports such or start your own.

CuteBara said: (excerpt)

...(which mostly get auto approved, even a lot of nsfw posts which I was told the community here is not a fan of)...

Read my posts on forum #155712 and forum #155715 where I thoroughly debunk that notion, along with the notion that male focus images are being biased against for approvals.

iridescent_slime said:

Based on the six approvers with zero disapprovals, is it safe to assume that the number of approvers that looked at each post before its deletion may actually be higher than what the "It has been reviewed by X approvers" message suggests?

Well those who don't use the queue typically use blacklists to hide content they don't care about (and yaoi is one of those types of content), or they just search for a specific things like OOZ and hide everything else as a result, or they only open interesting thumbnails, which is why I said that few approvers look at all posts, because not opening a post means you can't judge it.

I honestly can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of active approvers who would consistently approve non-trap yaoi in general, even less for bara and maybe two approvers if it's explicit bara, but that's just how it is for most "strong" fetishes. Either you can tolerate it or you have a strong aversion towards it, there's no middle ground for it.

There really isn't a viable solution to this because it's a snake eating its own tail, few posts of this type are approved so very few users upload it, or those who do actively aren't rewarded and never make it to approver status because their posts are rejected. My advice to this bara uploader is just to stick to milder content like otoko no ko and very safe male focus posts if they have to be bara, and wait until he gets unlimited uploads before uploading mode niche content.

Read my posts on forum #155712 and forum #155715 where I thoroughly debunk that notion, along with the notion that male focus images are being biased against for approvals.

Gotta have to disagree on those posts, because male focus has a very wide range. You can't compare for example solo Astolfo pictures with bara rating:e posts. The first might still be appealing to hetero users, even if it gets into risky content, for the same reason why futa is not necessarily only liked by gay users. It's completely different content from two hairy muscular men getting at it.

nonamethanks said:

Gotta have to disagree on those posts, because male focus has a very wide range. You can't compare for example solo Astolfo pictures with bara rating:e posts. The first might still be appealing to hetero users, even if it gets into risky content, for the same reason why futa is not necessarily only liked by gay users. It's completely different content from two hairy muscular men getting at it.

Yeah, but now your getting into pure subjectivity, whereas the approaches I used were all objectively based.

BrokenEagle98 said:

Yeah, but now your getting into pure subjectivity, whereas the approaches I used were all objectively based.

Well, some statistics then:
rating:e bara approver:any: 47 posts
rating:e bara status:deleted: 64 posts
yaoi -otoko_no_ko approver:any: 3200 posts
yaoi -otoko_no_ko status:deleted: 1203 posts

Meanwhile
male_focus otoko_no_ko approver:any: 7497
male_focus otoko_no_ko status:deleted: 1292
The percentages are vastly different.

Surely you see how unrestricted uploaders skew the statistics and how these percentages of deletion significantly deviate from the norm? Restricted bara uploads have more deleted posts than active ones.
It's just how it is, heterosexual users have a stronger reaction to explicitly gay content and so tend to avoid it.

nonamethanks said:

Well, some statistics then:
rating:e bara approver:any: 47 posts
rating:e bara status:deleted: 64 posts
yaoi -otoko_no_ko approver:any: 3200 posts
yaoi -otoko_no_ko status:deleted: 1203 posts

Meanwhile
male_focus otoko_no_ko approver:any: 7497
male_focus otoko_no_ko status:deleted: 1292
The percentages are vastly different.

Surely you see how unrestricted uploaders skew the statistics and how these percentages of deletion significantly deviate from the norm? Restricted bara uploads have more deleted posts than active ones.
It's just how it is, heterosexual users have a stronger reaction to explicitly gay content and so tend to avoid it.

Your point isn't clear. Are you trying to say that the original statistics I showed in this thread are skewed because they included unrestricted uploads? If so, then...

Post search: male_focus rating:safe limit:200 age:1w.. approver:any

Post search: rating:safe limit:200 age:1w.. approver:any

So not much has drastically changed.

If you're point is something else... well... you'll have to be more clear about it.

Also, for what it's worth, the statistics comparisons you did uses incorrect methodology. You're only supposed to change one variable at a time instead of multiple variables, unless you're going to do a full two-dimensional or multi-dimensional analysis. Each of your search require terms have at least two degrees of separation from each other. For the ones I did on this thread I showed two post searches with one variable changing and then an overall population representation as the third. For the ones I did on the other thread, I tried to keep the variables to mostly one. Even those in the second post I did, as the require terms are always only two with with one variable, the optional terms are always the same, and while the exclusion terms vary significantly between two of the sets, that was done only to facilitate a comparison between the super safe (i.e. real world safe) and the not so safe (i.e. Danbooru safe), all in order to demonstrate that super safe pictures of girls are still popular for approval on this site.

Just as a disclaimer, English is not my first language and I don't consider myself to be great at using it in discussions or arguments, so I may misuse some words, and I ask you don't take them literally.

BrokenEagle98 said:

From my own experience, I've seen posts on Twitter with 10K+ likes which do absolutely horrible on this site, and vice versa. The favorite count/score on whatever site the images are originally hosted on have no bearing on their appropriateness nor their approve-worthiness for this site.

I don't think that is the problem, the problem is the current system kills any potential for variety, or at least limits it so much that any casual fan of anything (other than cute girls) would be frustrated and leave soon after joining. I was introduced to this place by fans of Fate who legit thought they could compare popularity of characters from just upload amounts on here(they didn't know how things are even uploaded here), and so I felt like I wanted to show them and others that male characters can be just as loved, and there are people that dedicate their time for them. There are many that use Danbooru and similar sites as their source for fan art, because browsing social media is very time consuming and not that rewarding since posts aren't conveniently tagged with character names/etc.

The word unappealing is subjective... yes. However...

So while unappealing is indeed in the eye of the beholder, your posts are less appealing than the median appeal interest for this site, and slightly below the male focus median appeal for this site.

I think nonamethanks put it nicely:

it's a snake eating its own tail, few posts of this type are approved so very few users upload it, or those who do actively aren't rewarded and never make it to approver status because their posts are rejected.

Like I explained earlier, this is easily explained, only users who can put up with art of their taste getting uploaded very inconsistently, or go weeks or months without any new upload stay here, and as you can guess, there aren't too many of them. So calculating the median "likes" or whatever is meaningless in this kind of system, since that assumes there are approvers who like and approve submissions from all interests at all times. Which is very unrealistic in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash or fault anyone here, just trying to explain it in a way so you can understand where the frustration stems from and why calculating anything here doesn't mean much.

Welcome to Danbooru... with a user base that is mostly interested in girls, which caters to users that are mostly interested in girls. If you want a site that tailors to those interested in guys... look around for a different site which supports such or start your own.

This type of reply is one I get a lot, but why can't we all just enjoy what we enjoy and not have to segregate each other? I enjoy Danbooru because I find to be a great host site where everything is properly tagged, and sourced fairly and there can (potentially) be something for all interests. I wanted to take part and help this site grow appreciated by all sorts of fans in any community.

If there are tags for you to use and look for exactly what you'd like why would anyone care what the rest of the site holds? (I'm not talking about fetishes here)

I’m not sure that the new assessment system will especially help beginners. A couple of remote downloads and the limit drops significantly, it is difficult to restore it.
I understand that the site is committed to high-quality content and to check tons of pictures you need a bunch of moderators. However, "unlimited" users do not guarantee consistent quality, although they previously complied with it. I believe that a re-check of such users is still necessary. For example, once a year it automatically checks for approval of the last 30 uploaded images.

nonamethanks said:

I honestly can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of active approvers who would consistently approve non-trap yaoi in general, even less for bara and maybe two approvers if it's explicit bara, but that's just how it is for most "strong" fetishes. Either you can tolerate it or you have a strong aversion towards it, there's no middle ground for it.

I agree with almost everything you've said, and I'm glad there is someone that understands. However I just wanted to explain something.
"Bara" for many fans of (including almost everyone I know) is not exactly a fetish, we actually consider it to be the term that separate it from the fetishized BL which is mostly only for girls.
"Bara" just means the characters are not feminized like most if not all of Yaoi content, it doesn't just mean sex either, it's mostly about the design and characterization.

Muscles are just what is associated with masculinity, and it is attractive just like how breasts are attractive on women. Sure there are a tons of fetishes like Furry, hyper or whatever, but that is just like any other genre (Big breasts, muscular girls, thighs, monster girls etc).

TLDR: Bara basically means the characters aren't fetishized unrealistically for women to enjoy, and it does not entail hyper muscular sex only, so I wouldn't consider it a "strong fetish" at all.

For more context you can see from my uploads that it's mostly male character who are fit. I actually wouldn't have lasted one month here if I only care about sexual and NSFW content, that is secondary to me and I enjoy the fluff and SFW works much better, which is why I was able to tolerate the conditions here and why my username is "Cutebara".

My advice to this bara uploader is just to stick to milder content like otoko no ko and very safe male focus posts if they have to be bara, and wait until he gets unlimited uploads before uploading mode niche content.

I have been taking that advice very early since I joined here, but thank you for trying to help, it is appreciated.
Unfortunately while I do like Astolfo, I do not really enjoy otoko no ko content, but I will stick to safe male content instead since there is much art that is buried under the countless tweets and other sources which can be appreciated more. I do not think getting unlimited uploads is possible given my track record, besides 10-20 uploads is probably the maximum I'll do in a single day anyway.

CuteBara said:

I do not think getting unlimited uploads is possible given my track record, besides 10-20 uploads is probably the maximum I'll do in a single day anyway.

No.
You need a long streak of few deletions.
Let's say that your track records really is a problem, then you probably need 3 months, maybe 2.
That time goes by very fast.

Lacrimosa said:

No.
You need a long streak of few deletions.
Let's say that your track records really is a problem, then you probably need 3 months, maybe 2.
That time goes by very fast.

Hmm well that's interesting. Is it an automatic thing or do I have to apply for it? Regardless, I'll be more careful with my artwork selection from now on.

CuteBara said:

Hmm well that's interesting. Is it an automatic thing or do I have to apply for it? Regardless, I'll be more careful with my artwork selection from now on.

It's not automatic, mods and admins pick them.

nonamethanks said:

It's not automatic, mods and admins pick them.

Not...really.
I mean sure, they pull the trigger but it's mostly Builders suggesting users to the higher ups.
Most of the time that's approvers because we actually see how an user developed over time. Mods can approve to but it's not their primary job. It's a good collaboration between Mods and (usually) Builders.

Quick reminder that the new system is in place.

Maybe some of you have some questions about it...

For reference, here's the explanation of the new system in about:upload limits:

• Each status:pending upload takes up one upload slot.
• Slots are freed when uploads are approved or deleted.
• You start out with 15 upload slots.
• You can have between 5 and 40 upload slots.
• You gain and lose slots based on approvals and deletions.
• You lose a slot for every 3 deletions.
• You gain a slot for every N approved uploads, where N depends on how many slots you already have:
• If you have 15 slots or less, then you gain a slot for every 10 approved uploads.
• If you have more than 15 slots, then for every slot over 15, you need 2 extra approvals.

For example, if you have 15 upload slots, then you need 10 approvals for the next slot. If you have 16 slots, then you need 12 approvals. At 17 slots, you need 14 approvals, and so on. The number of approvals you need goes up by 2 every time.

At the maximum level you can have 40 upload slots. To reach this level you will need at least 900 approved uploads and an average deletion ratio of less than 5%.

And here's a spreadsheet with the full gory details of the new system: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cjFSP7B-5397pHoYDWT3RLidZgEVC8TQJCR9wco3rLo/edit?usp=sharing

If the punishment for deletion takes away more points at higher levels, why would anyone bother to upload more if they already have 1~3 pending posts that could get deleted? Risk all the progress leveling up only to lose more points later and go down a level again?

Most of the time pending posts either gets approved in less than a day or sits there for 3~4 days, which then punishes you later.

Remarkably complex.

Whilst in principle a great fan of fewer images a day --- and good ones ( of which there are many ) --- I dunno how far these rules go to actually stopping crap less attractive art.

Anyway, with this applying to appeals by some weird trick, if one is not an uploader and uses up one's first 15 upload slots on 5 appeals [ and by that is debarred from ever making uploads to increase one's score ] maybe it could be made clear on the appeals pop-up how and when one regains slots ? The Summer Solstice ? All Soul's Night ?

Claverhouse said:

Remarkably complex.

Whilst in principle a great fan of fewer images a day --- and good ones ( of which there are many ) --- I dunno how far these rules go to actually stopping crap less attractive art.

Anyway, with this applying to appeals by some weird trick, if one is not an uploader and uses up one's first 15 upload slots on 5 appeals [ and by that is debarred from ever making uploads to increase one's score ] maybe it could be made clear on the appeals pop-up how and when one regains slots ? The Summer Solstice ? All Soul's Night ?

The details are in howto:appeal, which is linked right in the appeal form.