Dickgirls and related tags

BUR #3469 has been rejected.

remove alias dickgirl -> futanari

Our tagging regarding futanari, dickgirl, newhalf, and other intersex terms are extremely inconsistent.

• There is no single tag for "girls with dicks". They are essentially split between futanari and newhalf.
• Newhalf is specifically stated to be different from futanari.
• Many newhalfs are also tagged futanari, even if the lack of pussy is clearly evident, such as by showing the perineum. Examples: post #3743485, post #2929852, post #4094717, post #3849641,
• Dickgirl is aliased to futanari, indicating they are synonymous. This ignores newhalfs.
• Male futanari implicates futanari. This contradicts the idea that dickgirl and futanari are synonymous.
• Hermaphrodite does not implicate futanari. This is inconsistent with the implication male futanari -> futanari. Hermaphrodite images are split about 50/50 on whether or not they are also tagged futanari.
• The pages for newhalf and cuntboy make it unclear whether cuntboy should also be tagged newhalf. There is no implication.

Most cuntboy images are also tagged newhalf, but some are not.

This needs cleanup and clarification. Whatever else happens, I suggest we have a tag, dickgirl, for any individual with both a penis (or bulge evincing such) and breasts/feminine body regardless of the presence or absence of testicles, pussy, or perineum. Removing the alias dickgirl -> futanari is the first step to this.

EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #3469 (forum #172910) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

One problem that I see here is that futanari and newhalf are visually identical most of the time, which may confuse uploaders when tagging these posts. It also happen of some artists saying that their art are futanari even when they don't have pussy, which can led to misstagging too (and of course, artists don't have obligation of knowing and differentiate futa/newhalf). At the same time, some newhalf arts gets tagged as futanari too, for example, the artist mogiki hayami only draws Newhalf, but some of their art get tagged as futanari because it's not visible if they lack or not a pussy. I believe the Newhalf tag should reinforce more the shemale/transexual aspect, the wiki could be more clear about that.

Certain sites (specially doujin ones such as hitomi, nhentai) use Dickgirl as an umbrella tag for futanari and newhalf like this: "dickgirl futanari", "dickgirl newhalf", "dickgirl_with_female futanari", "dickgirl_with_female newhalf", etc., determining the action and the category of dickgirl. It seems like a good tagging system for this matter but I'm not sure if it would work on Danbooru, and the current "tag what you see" rules for futa/newhalf are still pretty solid and direct to the point.

Aqros161 said:
Our tagging regarding futanari, dickgirl, newhalf, and other intersex terms are extremely inconsistent.

I certainly agree with almost everything you say. Those inconsistencies are very clear but this is an scenario where the rule "tag what you see" actually fights with what the artist say it is and with what everyone here think it is or should be called.

IMO the TWYS rule would be sufficient to fix this, however the definitions are somehow unclear and above all there is lack of consensus of how to call each variant (lets face it). Plus, some times people tag characters for who they are and not for what they show (breaking the TWYS rule) creating more inconsistency.

I too think this set of tags needs gardening in order to find the right images without combos of minus-this-minus-that. It can be done if we somehow manage to overcome the past paragraph.

This needs cleanup and clarification. Whatever else happens, I suggest we have a tag, dickgirl, for any individual with both a penis (or bulge evincing such) and breasts/feminine body regardless of the presence or absence of testicles, pussy, or perineum. Removing the alias dickgirl -> futanari is the first step to this.

However, I do not agree with your solution. Due to hermaphrodite implies having both parts regardless of male or female appearance this could be the "main" tag of all and then work down from whether is a "male" or a "female".

I would like to hear more about this as well as some other suggestions. Meanwhile is a -1 for me.

Contrary to what the wiki says, newhalf is in fact often used as equivalent to futanari+testicles. Many times it's impossible to visually verify, but the major thing is that many artists and new uploaders don't know or care about the difference. This makes the distinction counterintuitive. Tags should serve a purpose, and I think that when people search for/blacklist futanari or newhalf, they have something specific in mind; a female body with male genitalia. cuntboy and male_futanari create a problem with this, due to cuntboys being considered newhalf as well. And unlike standard futanari, male_futanari rarely has the problem of only one set of genitalia being visible.
I agree with Aqros161's idea that what's needed first is a tag that designates all "girls with dicks" regardless of other traits. I think newhalf should be reserved for characters who are in fact canonically "newhalves" (or that are tagged as such by the artist), and not for any female character whom the artist decided to add a dick and testicles to, or cuntboys.
As for hermaphrodite, it could be redefnied to designate characters who have both male and female genitalia clearly visible at the same time in an image (scientific definition of a hermaphrodite). Right now it only seems to be used for Devilman's Satan, who looks more like a regular dickgirl in some pics. Maybe a new tag should be made for "hybrids" like him and Baron Ashura, who look like a mix-and-match of male and female parts.
My thoughts on all this are admitedly kind of a mess because there are so many factors to consider, but one classification could be: futanari (female body+penis), cuntboy (male body+pussy), and hermaphrodite (penis and pussy at the same time, both clearly visible). Thus, male_futanari could be turned into cuntboy+hermaphrodite, and the current definition of futanari and newhalf would be futanari+hermaphrodite and futanari -hermaphrodite respectively. (reserving newhalf for canonical newhalves).

If we are to have one main tag, I strongly prefer dickgirl over hermaphrodite. Moving so many posts to the latter would drown out the intended purpose of the tag; characters that are specifically Greek mythology-style hermaphrodites.

feline_lump said:

If we are to have one main tag, I strongly prefer dickgirl over hermaphrodite. Moving so many posts to the latter would drown out the intended purpose of the tag; characters that are specifically Greek mythology-style hermaphrodites.

I don't think we'll have only one main tag.

This is getting annoying.

Some people are insistent on tagging newhalf images with futanari and the whole tag is screwed up now.

Kikimaru said:

This is getting annoying.

Some people are insistent on tagging newhalf images with futanari and the whole tag is screwed up now.

Neither tag actually says they're mutually exclusive in the wiki. Newhalf vaguely implies it, but that's it, and the way it's written could also be misinterpreted as newhalf being a subset of futanari. No surprise people are treating it as one.

feline_lump said:

If we are to have one main tag, I strongly prefer dickgirl over hermaphrodite. Moving so many posts to the latter would drown out the intended purpose of the tag; characters that are specifically Greek mythology-style hermaphrodites.

How about "shemale"? Or is that no longer politically correct?

SSJG said:

How about "shemale"? Or is that no longer politically correct?

Shemale are newhalf, the therm is aliased.
Also wanted to note that newhalfs are meant to represent transexual women, or in other words, male-to-female transexual, according to TWYS rules, it should be clear that they don't have pussy. Cuntboy shouldn't be tagged as newhalf, because they are more related to transexual men, or female-to-male transexual. Hermaphrodite are meant to be more androgynous/ambiguous gender characters with both male and female genitalia (angels are frequently portrayed like this), so they don't need to implicate futanari. I don't have any idea about how male futanari should be treated actually, but I'm in favor of removing the implication to futanari.

mongirlfan said:

Shemale are newhalf, the therm is aliased.

D'oh, I forgot that. I went ahead and removed newhalf from cuntboy posts, and made cuntboy_with_male, for the sake of clarity.

mongirlfan said:
...according to TWYS rules, it should be clear that they don't have pussy...

This. I think that it should be enforced the idea that it does not matter the tags that the artist used, for danbooru purposes and consistency some of them may not apply in the same way. TWYS is the way to go.

Hermaphrodite are meant to be more androgynous/ambiguous gender characters with both male and female genitalia (angels are frequently portrayed like this), so they don't need to implicate futanari.

There is a problem with that and what full-package_futanari describes. Also, androgynous is clearly defined due it does not imply genitals. I think angels fall directly in this later category but not in hermaphrodite.
If you take a look at hermaphrodite it looks like there is some consistency around specific characters. If we intend to use hermaphrodite in order to describe characters with both genitalia I suggest the creation of a hermaphrodite_(character) sort of tag.

The way I see things so far is:

• The TWYS rule comes before anything the artist says, given that different sites manage tags differently.
• The background of the character matters not.
• There may be a group of tags that apply only to characters with female traits.
• There may be a group of tags that apply only to characters with masculine traits.
• There may not be an umbrella tag that covers both.
• Hermaphrodite may be divide in a "traits" tag and a "character" tag.

thoughts?

P.S.

Kikimaru said:
Some people are insistent on tagging newhalf images with futanari and the whole tag is screwed up now.

I did some of that way ago (~20 pics) but tagging futanari images with newhalf. In my defense the futanari wiki does not says they are mutually exclusive, rather seemed like a "type of" (part of the problem, I guess). I was also following the TWYS rule.

Elfenus said:

• The TWYS rule comes before anything the artist says, given that different sites manage tags differently.
• The background of the character matters not.
• There may be a group of tags that apply only to characters with female traits.
• There may be a group of tags that apply only to characters with masculine traits.
• There may not be an umbrella tag that covers both.
• Hermaphrodite may be divide in a "traits" tag and a "character" tag.

That is more or less in line with what I proposed above, but I believe that character's canon background should matter when it comes to tagging them as either futanari or newhalf, with newhalf (or maybe a sbubset of newhalf?) reserved to canon newhalves like Poison.

That is part of the problem. Take post #4085943 for example. Currently is tagged as futanari. Under your statement the same image with "Poison's face" suddenly turns into newhalf or futanari + newhalf. That completely breaks the TWYS rule and makes the process counter-intuitive. You are referring newhalf to a process of change not to what the image actually shows. Think in someone that is not familiar with poison_(final_fight). Which tag would that person use?

Note aside, there are other tags that also do not help to this subject like no_testicles. But we'll get to that later.

SSJG said:

D'oh, I forgot that. I went ahead and removed newhalf from cuntboy posts, and made cuntboy_with_male, for the sake of clarity.

This is good, so people won't confuse Newhalf and Cuntboy, they are clearly different things.

There is a problem with that and what full-package_futanari describes. Also, androgynous is clearly defined due it does not imply genitals. I think angels fall directly in this later category but not in hermaphrodite.
If you take a look at hermaphrodite it looks like there is some consistency around specific characters. If we intend to use hermaphrodite in order to describe characters with both genitalia I suggest the creation of a hermaphrodite_(character) sort of tag.

What I wanted to mean, is that full-package futanari always have a female form, but hermaphrodites are more on the ambiguous/genderless/1other side, or having both male and female traits. The character Crimvael is the first that comes to mind right now as an example (looks feminine, can easily pass for a boy too, but still genderless). Still, full-package futanari and hermaphrodite may overlap sometimes (not mutually exclusive).

Ironically, Poison is NOT a canonical newhalf ever since Capcom went 50/50 on the confirmation of her gender.

However for characters like veronica_ishtani or kirihara_torajyuro_tatsumune where the author categorically states they are newhalf, usage of futanari is incorrect.
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The hermaphrodite/full-package futanari issue could be solved by aliasing them into 1 tag & using androgynous on a TWYS basis.

Kikimaru said:

Ironically, Poison is NOT a canonical newhalf ever since Capcom went 50/50 on the confirmation of her gender.
However for characters like veronica_ishtani or kirihara_torajyuro_tatsumune where the author categorically states they are newhalf, usage of futanari is incorrect.

It does not matter. That is precisely what creates confusion. Take loli for example. The artist can say the character is 900 years old but if it looks loli is tagged loli.

However we could specify in the wiki that the newhalf tag can only be assign to characters that the authors explicitly say are newhalf. In this case the TWYS would still be somehow "respected": I see a (confirmed) newhalf character. You know what I mean? The tag no longer describes any visual trait but a process.

The hermaphrodite/full-package futanari issue could be solved by aliasing them into 1 tag & using androgynous on a TWYS basis.

I do not agree. Androgynous is all about the look more than genitals while as mongirlfan said and I agree upon:

... full-package futanari always have a female form...

Kikimaru said:

Ironically, Poison is NOT a canonical newhalf ever since Capcom went 50/50 on the confirmation of her gender.

However for characters like veronica_ishtani or kirihara_torajyuro_tatsumune where the author categorically states they are newhalf, usage of futanari is incorrect.

To hell with canon. The entire reason these tags are so inconsistent in the first place is because we tag characters as futanari or newhalf based on what the artist/creator says rather than what is actually visible.

IMHO this is one area where TWYS should be strictly applied. The "or there is information that would support that the character doesn't have one" clause should be stricken from the newhalf wiki altogether, because it only exists to justify edit-warring where there is no visual evidence pointing one way or the other.

iridescent_slime said:

To hell with canon. The entire reason these tags are so inconsistent in the first place is because we tag characters as futanari or newhalf based on what the artist/creator says rather than what is actually visible.

IMHO this is one area where TWYS should be strictly applied. The "or there is information that would support that the character doesn't have one" clause should be stricken from the newhalf wiki altogether, because it only exists to justify edit-warring where there is no visual evidence pointing one way or the other.

+1 for a strict TWYS rule on tose tags.

+1 for a strict TWYS rule (as I already stated).