Danbooru

deprecate silver_hair

Posted under Tags

The bulk update request #9694 has been approved by @evazion.

deprecate silver_hair

Alright, let's try this.

topic #19128 for the discussion.

It couldn't be aliased to grey hair because people use it for anything from white hair to grey hair to blue hair to light purple hair. It's a garbage tag.

Deprecating it means it can't be added to new posts, but the existing ones will stay so we can take as much time as we need to empty the tag.

Seems contradictory to the direction we're moving with other color tags with the creation of various light/dark variants of colors tags. If it's done for them, I don't necessarily see why we'd want to try and push for consolidation, particularly, of all greys under a single color tag.

NWF_Renim said:

Seems contradictory to the direction we're moving with other color tags with the creation of various light/dark variants of colors tags. If it's done for them, I don't necessarily see why we'd want to try and push for consolidation, particularly, of all greys under a single color tag.

light purple hair only exists because we couldn't nuke lavender hair. If people hadn't been abusing that too for grey hair, blonde hair, pink hair or white hair we would've just aliased it to purple hair. See topic #17223.

The fact is that if we go beyond a basic list of color people will start using tags according to their preference and with no semblance of consistence. Just look at platinum_blonde_hair, half of the first few results are green hair.

Provence said:

The solution should be to garden out these posts, and not kill off a widely used tag that gets applied correctly most of the time.
You won't make anyone happy with such a dramatic decision.

A tag of this size will never be cleaned out with the rate people add garbage to it. And even if by some miracle we managed, it's still a never-ending job for what amounts to grey_hair for people too stubborn to use grey_hair.

Provence said:

The solution should be to garden out these posts, and not kill off a widely used tag that gets applied correctly most of the time.
You won't make anyone happy with such a dramatic decision.

We only have silver hair because people don't want to tag young characters with grey hair or white hair.
Just look at the usage of the tag. There's a tons of different colors and none of them are silver. Is post #5261487 silver? What about post #5261728, post #5261462, post #5261138 (yes, it's tagged with silver hair), post #5247923? There's no real definition of "silver hair" that we can enforce because it's a made up concept.

nonamethanks said:

We only have silver hair because people don't want to tag young characters with grey hair or white hair.
Just look at the usage of the tag. There's a tons of different colors and none of them are silver. Is post #5261487 silver? What about post #5261728, post #5261462, post #5261138 (yes, it's tagged with silver hair), post #5247923? There's no real definition of "silver hair" that we can enforce because it's a made up concept.

Sometimes you could argue it's a mistag. Especially with that last image.
To me, the others all fall into it.
You have the same issue with aqua hair and it's two neighbours, green hair and blue hair. Just look at Miku and what a mess that is. One tag gets added willy-nilly, most likely due to personal preference.
I'd argue silver hair is also a proxy for that matter to most people. Not wanting to add grey hair and/or white hair. Silver tags gets bordered by these two tags, just like aqua hair gets bordered by green and blue.

nonamethanks said:

light purple hair only exists because we couldn't nuke lavender hair. If people hadn't been abusing that too for grey hair, blonde hair, pink hair or white hair we would've just aliased it to purple hair. See topic #17223.

The fact is that if we go beyond a basic list of color people will start using tags according to their preference and with no semblance of consistence. Just look at platinum_blonde_hair, half of the first few results are green hair.

Not sure if you've checked tag group:hair color, but beyond light purple hair we also have populated tags for: light blue hair, light brown hair, dark green hair, and light green hair as well.

Provence said:

Then that issue will simply carry over to the grey hair tag.

The issue also carries over to the white hair tag, which itself also has plenty of cases of grey hair, blonde hair, pink hair, and purple hair.

NWF_Renim said:

Not sure if you've checked tag group:hair color, but beyond light purple hair we also have populated tags for: light blue hair, light brown hair, dark green hair, and light green hair as well.

The issue also carries over to the white hair tag, which itself also has plenty of cases of grey hair, blonde hair, pink hair, and purple hair.

All of the hair color tone tags are absolutely garbage and should be deprecated too because they are completely subjective and what someone might consider light blue hair someone else might consider just blue hair and let's not get into the shitfest that is dark blue hair vs blue hair vs black hair

NWF_Renim said:

beyond light purple hair we also have populated tags for: light blue hair, light brown hair, dark green hair, and light green hair as well.

And ironically they're all used wrong and a lot of the results for those tags are made up of a single character tagged canonically. I opened one of those tags at random and look at this. Can you tell which tag it is, of the ones you linked?

I'd still rather have "light grey hair" than "silver hair", but the point is moot because silver hair is not being used for light grey hair.

Known issue of intermediate colors.

I open gray_hair from the first message. post #5263011.
For me, it's a silvery color due to the shine.

I lean that both colors are grey, as stated in the previous discussion. At the same time, gray with a gradient, mostly white, is better to make a child tag. Silver can reflect other shades, so I don't see a problem with that. Depends on whether direct sunlight hits or reflected from a colored surface.
___
There will still be confusion in places, but it will already be possible to separate exactly the gray color and other colors.
For example, white color became gray - post #5258605. If the darkened color can still be confused, then the hair is almost the background color for some reason not white - post #5259034, post #5258918. Obviously not a gray dog and a gray cat.

honestly, I think the real problem is that the wiki says one thing, but due to other arbitrary reasons the tag is used in the wrong way.
Silver is literally gray, but with a metallic shine.
as well as gold is yellow with metallic shine,

the wiki clearly "overlap between this tag and the grey hair and white hair tags." this is a perfect match for silver, gray with a glossy finish
if it is gray (no matter if it is dark or light) and has brightness, it is silver.
otherwise, it is just standard gray, under this premise silver in my humble opinion is a valid color.
however, the big problem is when you add other colors such as light blue, bright white, or even bright light brown.
here it is quite easy, add the tag (insert any color)_hair + shiny_hair
you don't think that's enough? well, we can use a tag simply called "platinum hair".
just platinum, so when a character with hair as shiny as metal appears he can use this tag, regardless of the color of the hair, be it blonde, gray, white, blue, light, etc.
or if they want a more extreme solution, they can change the name of the silver hair tag to platinum hair so the current mess is solved for a second.

now, before you say "young characters can't use the gray/white hair tag" please read to my humble opinion
that a character is "young" is not enough reason to someone not use the tag gray/white hair and use silver instead, that is a very arbitrary and not objective reason. oh come on, we are tagging the hair color to facilitate the search, the hair colour has nothing to do with the age of the character.
it's like saying "I won't use the blonde hair tag because dumb characters have that hair color and instead I'll use orange hair instead", regardless of how light/dark the character hair is. sounds arbitrary and unserious, doesn't it? the same applies to silver hair.

this is my sincere opinion, it is true that I am nobody to force you to follow my opinion.
but, if we all agree on which rule to use, this current mess with silver hair can be solved easily, but with such an arbitrary use as young characters not being allowed to use the gray/white hair tag and allowing it will not solve anything, it will only make the problem worse, no matter how many tags indicating brightness are used.

TL:DR: the current problem is that this tag is used to represent hair of any color with metallic sheen, and it is used as a perfect excuse not to put the gray/white hair tag on a young character. the solution is not to kill the tag, the solution (in my opinion) to be used strictly are the shiny gray and the other colors use shiny hair

Updated

the solution (in my opinion) to be used strictly are the shiny gray and the other colors use shiny hair

gray_hair shouldnt deserve a special tag for shininess since the others make do with shiny_hair

gold is blonde with shiny, bronze is brown with shiny, cobalt is blue with shiny etc etc
but of these only silver has avid supporters here

thelieutenant said:

gray_hair shouldnt deserve a special tag for shininess since the others make do with shiny_hair

gold is blonde with shiny, bronze is brown with shiny, cobalt is blue with shiny etc etc
but of these only silver has avid supporters here

Because grey is like a shit sounding word for someone as nice as drawn anime hair.
Sorry, but that's still a point to consider: Grey just isn't a good word to describe the hair color of a teen anime character.

In the end, you will make users use white_hair instead (instead of what I assumed a bit above).
I think this tag works just fine. It's just edge cases where the tag might get applied in a wrong matter, but that is also true for other in-between colors like orange (brown-orange-red) and aqua (blue-aqua-green, see Miku), but also colors that aren't an in-between are worthy of note, see pink-purple or black-blue.
I don't really see why you should single out one color in this regard, especially a rather well-used tag. If I look at the silver hair search, then I can see images that are indeed that color and a few that may have a purplish-pinkish tint (like post #5263282, q rating) in them. But now what would the tagger user if silver_hair didn't exist for that purplish tinted silver/grey hair? Purple hair? Pink hair? Grey hair? White hair? I could see all of them being applied here, and if it's the latter two, it's only shifting the problem, but isn't a solution. But you also see that it's also a question between pink and purple, no matter what a color bot may tell you.

Rationalising colors is something that simply won't work. You can get rid of one color, sure, but your problem still exists. And that's not a solution to this question I would be satisfied with.

"grey makes me feel bad" is shit justification. Platinum hair is a bad tag that should not be used either. Even the wiki doesn't know what it means, calling it like three different colors. Gold hair is already aliased to yellow and there is no good justification for keeping a tag that is so regularly poisoned with things that aren't even remotely silver. People will point to pictures of purple hair and say it's silver. So even for something that's supposed to be just shiny grey it's doing a pretty rubbish job.

I really do not get this hatred for grey hair among anime connoisseurs. We're fine with outlandish hair colors like pink and blue, but for some reason grey hair on someone young is incomprehensible?

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