Termichan's (not-a-bot's OC) status as female commander in bikini

Yeah, this again.
Kommandant and me have another autistic argument about not-a-bot's OC - termichan. Should she be tagged as female commander, when she is wearing a plain black bikini set like here: post #6749214 (a black bikini set, that is not based from any official clothing sets from the GFL in-game shop or any official media related to GFL).
Kommandant claims, that she is always a female commander no matter the clothes (but he decided not tag her as that, when she is wearing tactical clothes), and that skeb requests of not-a-bot state, that she is always commissioned as "Commander OC" (which I find a non-factor in tagging, because it's visual and does not provide context, if it is not attached to the artwork). He is blaming me for vandalasing tags of this character for simply removing inappropriate tags (I do it simply based on visuals of the artworks, and I don't see any G&K uniform or any clothes, derived from in-game clothes. Plus, her description here states: Please do not tag her with female_commander_(girls'_frontline) unless she is explicitly wearing the Griffin & Kryuger uniform.).

Post of termichan wearing G&K uniform - post #6745187
Post of termichan wearing clothes, derived from G&K uniform - post #6749191
Post of termichan being tagged as female commander, while wearing the bikini - post #6332019 (the artwork at least has G&K beret, the alt. artwork falls under same tag due to post relationships), and post #6458676 (because she is tagged as female commander in pixiv tags, but lacks Girls' Frontline tag, which I count as just original, not GFL-related).

All other artworks with termichan in this bikini set are tagged only original (except post #6517349, which Kommandant "corrected" during our argument on 8th of October, which I find slimy).

Is Kommandant right, claiming that termichan was, is, and will always be a female commander, no matter how she looks, just because she originated from GFL in-game character creator? Should all artworks of her in tactical gear with no relation to Girls' Frontline have the female commander tag? I stand by the vague rules we have and her description - she is an OC, that can be tagged as female commander only when she is wearing GFL themed clothes or slightly altered clothes, that had appeared in GFL-related official media.

If it will be proven otherwise here, then I'll finally drop my point.

If you ask me, no,, Termichan should not be tagged as a female commander unless she's explicitly wearing the uniform. Termichan's often commissioned in settings completely divorced from Girls Frontline. To add GFL to all of her images that doesn't have the G&K uniform would be off-topic. Copyright tags for OCs should only be added if they're wearing outfits inspired from those copyrights.

We have a precedent when it comes to OCs that were originally created as OCs within an IP. Hie's OC, which was originally a female_admiral, was tagged as such, and images featuring her had the Kancolle copyright tag as well, even when it had no relation to the IP. You can check the history on post #2696989, post #2282476, and post #2314919 for examples. When her character tag was created, those tags were pruned. The same would apply here.

winterless said:

If you ask me, no,, Termichan should not be tagged as a female commander unless she's explicitly wearing the uniform. Termichan's often commissioned in settings completely divorced from Girls Frontline. To add GFL to all of her images that doesn't have the G&K uniform would be off-topic. Copyright tags for OCs should only be added if they're wearing outfits inspired from those copyrights.

We have a precedent when it comes to OCs that were originally created as OCs within an IP. Hie's OC, which was originally a female_admiral, was tagged as such, and images featuring her had the Kancolle copyright tag as well, even when it had no relation to the IP. You can check the history on post #2696989, post #2282476, and post #2314919 for examples. When her character tag was created, those tags were pruned. The same would apply here.

That's my point, but Kommandant insists, that termichan should be tagged as female commander, just because she originated from GFL, and they know from not-a-bot's skeb requests description, that not-a-bot commissions her as a commander. I count both as non-factor in tagging artworks with this character, Kommandant thinks otherwise and blames me for "tag vandalisation". We are having a tag war because of this.

Then you should bring this matter up to one of the site admins if concrete proof doesn't work.

Somewhat relevant thread - topic #16715

winterless said:

Then you should bring this matter up to one of the site admins if concrete proof doesn't work.

Even not-a-bot thinks, that termichan in bikini can be tagged as just original: screenshot 1 screenshot 2

I think the reaction of the actual artist speaks volumes to show how ridiculous this issue is, and more so how ridiculous it is that this is still an issue. It’s reasonable to assume that people searching for Female Commander want to see the G&K uniform, a G&K office, or any other context that is not a fully original black bikini.

Tagging otherwise here not only violates tag what you see, — Arknights’ Male Doctor is not inherent to any random male in the frame, it needs the Rhodes Island jacket — but appears quite biased.

BobTheBuilder_v1 said:

I think the reaction of the actual artist speaks volumes to show how ridiculous this issue is, and more so how ridiculous it is that this is still an issue. It’s reasonable to assume that people searching for Female Commander want to see the G&K uniform, a G&K office, or any other context that is not a fully original black bikini.

Tagging otherwise here not only violates tag what you see, — Arknights’ Male Doctor is not inherent to any random male in the frame, it needs the Rhodes Island jacket — but appears quite biased.

It's also reasonable to assume that people would want to see a Female Commander in general. The clothes don't make the character and Termichan is just a Female Commander from GF that Not-a-Bot just commissions in tactical gear and whatever else he may put her in. He doesn't put much thought into it outside of "This is my OC, please draw her... Here's the references." Hell, she doesn't even have a real name, just a community given one. To me, she just isn't enough of a independent original character to warrant tagging on a case-by-case basis. In concerns to the bikini pic, she was depicted as a female commander before so it's not unreasonable to assume that she is one in other works with the bikini.

Kommandant said:

It's also reasonable to assume that people would want to see a Female Commander in general. The clothes don't make the character and Termichan is just a Female Commander from GF that Not-a-Bot just commissions in tactical gear and whatever else he may put her in. He doesn't put much thought into it outside of "This is my OC, please draw her... Here's the references." Hell, she doesn't even have a real name, just a community given one. To me, she just isn't enough of a independent original character to warrant tagging on a case-by-case basis. In concerns to the bikini pic, she was depicted as a female commander before so it's not unreasonable to assume that she is one in other works with the bikini.

She was tagged only once as Female Commander in that bikini set, where she wore G&K beret, and the alt without it. All GFL-related tags on other similar artworks - your recent doing.
Also, what you THINK about the character should not influence the tags you put based on visual context. As winterless and BobTheBuilder v1 said above, just because OC was created within the IP, it doesn't make them a recognisable character of said IP. You can't tag someone's OC as copyright's protagonist, when they visually lack any connection with the copyright.
Also, as you said, not-a-bot does not put much thought when commissioning her, so what makes you think, that she is always related to GFL, when she is visually and contextually seperated from GFL?

I'm also not sure why this matter is still being argued when the original commissioner and owner of the OC has weighted in and told us to not tag Termichan as a G&K Commander unless she has clothing related to the G&K uniform.

At this point this is just obstinacy for obstinacy's sake. There's also objectively nothing wrong with what Terminal/not-a-bot has said, considering I had also linked examples of another artist's admiral OC that became their general-purpose OC.

And finally, Termichan is her name. One of the commisioner's usernames is Terminal.

winterless said:

I'm also not sure why this matter is still being argued when the original commissioner and owner of the OC has weighted in and told us to not tag Termichan as a G&K Commander unless she has clothing related to the G&K uniform.

At this point this is just obstinacy for obstinacy's sake. There's also objectively nothing wrong with what Terminal/not-a-bot has said, considering I had also linked examples of another artist's admiral OC that became their general-purpose OC.

And finally, Termichan is her name. One of the commisioner's usernames is Terminal.

Totally agree. Kommandant is the only one here being stubborn about her relation to GFL copyright, relying only on an outdated screenshot of their conversation with not-a-bot. And I've already confirmed with not-a-bot, that the bikini set is not derived from termichan's G&K clothes.

So, is there any civilized way to end this retardation about someone's OC? Tried to reach admins - no response.

I have a hard time following all of this, but from the sound of it I'll say she shouldn't be tagged as Girls' Frontline unless it's directly GFL-related.

If there's nothing about the image linking to GFL in any way, whether a piece of outfit or another character's presence or the like, then it doesn't make sense to tag the character as female_commander and give it the GFL copyright tag. Posts like post #6517349 have nothing to do with GFL, it's an OC in a bikini getting fucked. It's different from tagging, for example, post #5364708 with male_doctor because the Arknights link is still there.

Edit: Oh, evazion replied while I was typing.
Guess he's still tag-warring even though evazion JUST said it shouldn't be tagged GFL.

evazion said:

I have a hard time following all of this, but from the sound of it I'll say she shouldn't be tagged as Girls' Frontline unless it's directly GFL-related.

I had asked Not-a-bot about that bikini pic awhile back and he said it counted as a costume for his Commander.

Kommandant said:

I had asked Not-a-bot about that bikini pic awhile back and he said it counted as a costume for his Commander.

I asked the same question recently, and I've confirmed it with them, that bikini does NOT count as GFL-related costume. Only her own G&K uniform and slightly altered outfits of said uniform.

sycer13 said:

I asked the same question recently, and I've confirmed it with them, that bikini does NOT count as GFL-related costume. Only her own G&K uniform and slightly altered outfits of said uniform.

I see in no way how that diminishes what he had told me when I had about that specific bikini.

If the only way to tell is from private conversations with the artist, then it shouldn't be tagged as Girls' Frontline. It should be evident from the picture itself.

The point of "tag what you see" is that you don't have to ask the artist. You tag based on what you see in the picture itself. If someone searches Female Commander, they should be able to tell it's a Female Commander just by looking at the picture.

evazion said:

If the only way to tell is from private conversations with the artist, then it shouldn't be tagged as Girls' Frontline. It should be evident from the picture itself.

The point of "tag what you see" is that you don't have to ask the artist. You tag based on what you see in the picture itself. If someone searches Female Commander, they should be able to tell it's a Female Commander just by looking at the picture.

They in-fact can tell if it's a female Commander visually. Termichan's physical appearance is wholly based on the Female Commander from GF1. It's why I always stand by that regardless of clothes, Termichan should be labeled as a Female Commander.

Kommandant said:

They in-fact can tell if it's a female Commander visually. Termichan's physical appearance is wholly based on the Female Commander from GF1. It's why I always stand by that regardless of clothes, Termichan should be labeled as a Female Commander.

Just because YOU know she originated from GFL, doesn't make that everyone recognizes her as Female Commander.
And just because she is BASED ON the female avatar, doesn't make her retain the connection with copyright. You can't tag a random person as arknights' Doctor or Kantai Collection's Admiral just because they originated from there, but lack any visual context.