Posted under General
Implicating watercolor -> traditional media
Reason : the first is a part of the second. I personnaly think that the others medias listed in the wiki should also implicate traditional media
- colored pencil
- gouache
- graphite
- millipen
- nib pen
Apologies in advance if this topic has already been discussed .
Updated by DschingisKhan
I think this talk of implicating the media was tackled somewhat before on forum #22888.
But I also think implicating colored pencil isn't a good idea because of post #496509, which is tagged because of the physical presence of colored pencils in the image.
Updated
+1
nanami said:
But I also think implicating colored pencil isn't a good idea because of post #496509, which is tagged because of the physical presence of colored pencils in the image.
Imho this calls for use of a *_(medium) qualifier rather than rejecting the implication.
Implicated except for colored_pencil.
r0d3n7z said: Imho this calls for use of a *_(medium) qualifier rather than rejecting the implication.
Which is more common? Might make sense to qualify the object instead, as I imagine it's used quite infrequently as an _(object) tag. That or we qualify all mediums for consistency.
What about watercolor images that are computer-assisted, such as post #522551 or post #512247? post #507723 is another example of a gouache image that is computer-assisted. Or should I not use the medium tag on these images at all?
There was some initiative to use faux_traditional_media for images that look like traditional media but are either made with stuff like Painter, or partially hand-drawn but significantly retouched in photoshop or the like. That might work?
The implications are a good idea for sure, I'm not sure if it might not be a good idea to use _(media) qualifiers... it has the advantage that you can search for *_(media) to find all the different media tagged on the site. But maybe that's something that only I would care about, in which case it's not a big deal.
Trying to tie up remaining loose ends:
I'm still inclined toward colored_pencil_(medium), for the same reasons that Log mentioned. With most people used to tagging objects as they see them, this should help avoid mistagging.
jxh - I don't have a problem with "qualify[ing] all mediums for consistency" if you think that is appropriate. As has been pointed out, that can be useful for searching.
freefunctor said:
What about watercolor images that are computer-assisted, such as post #522551 or post #512247? ...
This is important -- currently all such images became tagged with traditional_media. Now, I don't have a problem with that since I feel that minor computer-assist to clean up the image, adjust color balance and levels or such doesn't detract much for anyone who wants (to quote forum #22888) "to examine the applications of various [traditional media] techniques". But purists may beg to differ, I don't know.
スラッシュ said:
There was some initiative to use faux_traditional_media
My understanding is that faux_traditional_media is for images that were made with software with the aim of mimicking a "analog" look. Also, due to the implication, you might see things like watercolor traditional_media faux_traditional_media which is contradictory. Removing the medium to avoid the implication doesn't seem right, either, as the image becomes less searchable.
If necessary, I'd rather advocate a new tag computer-assisted in these cases -- watercolor traditional_media computer-assisted makes sense, keeps the image searchable by medium, while noting the use of software assist. Purists who don't wish to see such images can simply search traditional_media -computer-assisted.
r0d3n7z said:
currently all [computer-assisted analog] images became tagged with traditional_media.
In my opinion this is how it should be. Only when you get images that are drawn with pencil but colored in fully with the computer, or touched up to such a degree that it's clearly noticable, that's no longer traditional_media to me. A bit of levelling or contrast adjustment is totally fine. Hell, if we have it on here at all it's been digitally treated, if only by scanning it in a certain way.
So I don't really think we need a computer_assisted tag, it would make it a bit too granulated in my opinion. It's difficult enough to keep up the /trad tag as it is, I think another qualifying "layer" will just come into disuse, making it pointless.
r0d3n7z said:
freefunctor said: What about watercolor images that are computer-assisted, such as post #522551 or post #512247? ...
This is important -- currently all such images became tagged with traditional_media. Now, I don't have a problem with that since I feel that minor computer-assist to clean up the image, adjust color balance and levels or such doesn't detract much for anyone who wants (to quote forum #22888) "to examine the applications of various [traditional media] techniques". But purists may beg to differ, I don't know.
I agree with you here. If it's done in a traditional_media and then just touched up, it should still be get the tag. However I'm with スラッシュ in thinking that computer_assisted makes things a bit too nuanced. This is an art site but eventually you get to a level of detail that only means something to 0.5% of the userbase.
jxh - I don't have a problem with "qualify[ing] all mediums for consistency" if you think that is appropriate. As has been pointed out, that can be useful for searching.
I think I'm going to do this if I don't get any good arguments against it in the next few hours or day or so.
I would vaguely suggest aliasing the clear-cut ones like watercolo(u)r to watercolor_(medium). I don't think there's any object we'd want to tag watercolor, so I don't see any harm in that alias.
Obviously, for those things that are ambiguous the qualification is simply necessary, since we default to objects. As such a crayon tag is more likely to mark a picture of crayons than a picture drawn with them. Then again, it's already in place in that case.
This may be a little off-topic, but it occurs to me that the tag should be traditional_medium to be consistent with the plural to singular policy.
evazion said:
This may be a little off-topic, but it occurs to me that the tag should be traditional_medium to be consistent with the plural to singular policy.
No. It marks images drawn with traditional media.
スラッシュ said:
On the other hand, each individual image is (generally) only drawn with one medium.
You mean like all the ones tagged on pixiv with Sharp pencil and watercolour? Or Sharp pencil and crayons?
Let's stick with traditional_media for the tag.
And well, like スラッシュ said, we could alias most of them to _(medium) so they don't need to be typed.
So how about:
watercolor -> watercolor_(medium)
watercolour -> watercolor_(medium)
gouache -> gouache_(medium)
graphite -> graphite_(medium)
millipen -> millipen_(medium)
nib_pen -> nib_pen_(medium)
Are there any where we think we need to keep the base tag free for the object? And in that case スラッシュ is right that we'd have to qualify _(medium) anyway.
I've just updated the traditional_media wiki and compiled what is hopefully a comprehensive list of tags. here they are, sorted by todo:
These are already qualified with *_(medium) and should not be aliased because the base tags are being used for objects:
chalk_(medium) vs chalk
charcoal_(medium) vs charcoal
crayon_(medium) vs crayon
marker_(medium) vs marker
The following (including those already listed by jxh) can be safely aliased to *_(medium)
acrylic_paint
ballpoint_pen
gouache
graphite
millipen
nib_pen
oil_painting
watercolor
watercolor_pencil
As well as US/UK spellings of colo(u)r.
Both colored_pencil and color_pencil were in use. I have temporarily sorted the objects into color_pencil and the medium into colored_pencil. Todo: decide which tag to use, split into base tag and *_(medium) appropriately, add aliases for US/UK spellings.
pencil_sketch can simply aliased to graphite.
paint_(medium) only one image tagged, but seems potentially useful for when images on pixiv are tagged 「絵の具」 without mentioning a more specific medium (oils, gouache, acrylic...).
pastel_(medium) corresponds to pixiv's 「パステル」. I'm not sure what to make of pastels:
post #496509 tags for the pastel crayons in the picture
post #373450 and post #350138 probably refer to the pale "powdery" colors
post #469198 could be the colors or the medium
post #187661 I don't even know.
Just FYI, these are objects: fountain_pen, g-pen, mechanical_pencil, pencil. The last two are tagged graphite when the medium is intended -- have noted this in the wikis.
Updated
r0d3n7z said: These are already qualified with *_(medium) and should not be aliased because the base tags are being used for objects:
chalk_(medium) vs chalk
charcoal_(medium) vs charcoal
crayon_(medium) vs crayon
marker_(medium) vs marker
Agreed.
The following (including those already listed by jxh) can be safely aliased to *_(medium)
acrylic_paint
ballpoint_pen
gouache
graphite
millipen
nib_pen
oil_painting
watercolor
watercolor_pencil
As well as US/UK spellings of colo(u)r.
Done.
Both colored_pencil and color_pencil were in use. I have temporarily sorted the objects into color_pencil and the medium into colored_pencil. Todo: decide which tag to use, split into base tag and *_(medium) appropriately, add aliases for US/UK spellings.
colored_pencil is what I'm more familiar with but I don't know which is more "correct".
pencil_sketch can simply aliased to graphite.
Done, to graphite_(medium).
paint_(medium) only one image tagged, but seems potentially useful for when images on pixiv are tagged 「絵の具」 without mentioning a more specific medium (oils, gouache, acrylic...).
Guess we can leave it then.
pastel_(medium) corresponds to pixiv's 「パステル」. I'm not sure what to make of pastels:
post #496509 tags for the pastel crayons in the picture
post #373450 and post #350138 probably refer to the pale "powdery" colors
post #469198 could be the colors or the medium
post #187661 I don't even know.
I suppose leaving pastels for the object would be reasonable.
Just FYI, these are objects: fountain_pen, g-pen, mechanical_pencil, pencil. The last two are tagged graphite when the medium is intended -- have noted this in the wikis.
Noted.
Thanks for going through these tags. I think I got everything except deciding about colo(u)r(ed)_pencil.
Thanks for tackling that whole pile of aliases.
jxh2154 said:
colored_pencil is what I'm more familiar with but I don't know which is more "correct".
A simple count of hits on google suggests colored_pencil is the more common usage; I suppose we can go with that if no one pipes up with any objections.
