Untangling the mess of Fate chartags, Mordred edition

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Ylimegirl

Alright, finally hitting another umbrella tag after topic #31512. Arguably also a sequel to topic #29502.

This is not a huge umbrella tag, but the main problem is that people consider Mordred (Fate/Apocrypha) to be used in the same way we use like, Jack the Ripper (Fate/Apocrypha) - as an umbrella chartag rather than a costume chartag. the current wiki for mordred (fate) is certainly not helping matters. Which means we get a lot of things like post #9350685 getting tagged with what is arguably 2 costume tags. Which isn't too surprising since well... Memories at Trifas also originated from Apocrypha.

And as a costume tag, Mordred (Fate/Apocrypha) is encompassing 2 or 3 distinct looks (yes, all of which appear in Fate/Apocrypha, none are original to FGO, see post #4736484) - her full armor, her helmet removed, and her revealing red clothes. We could make three different costume tags for each ascension, but her first and second ascensions are identical plus or minus a helmet, so making one for both seems superfluous this take brought to you by the person who decided to make two tags for Saber Alter (First Ascension) and Saber Alter (Second Ascension) which was probably a mistake, and only making a tag for her third ascension--which I think most would consider her default--would instead imply that her armor is her default. Guess we could make an (armor) costume tag which is unofficial but... IDK, I don't have any great ideas. But as it is, Mordred (Fate/Apocrypha) is not a useful tag.

At least her Swimsuit alt has a common through-line, so we don't have to deal with that.

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Ylimegirl

BUR #41831 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication mordred_(anniversary_heroines)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate)
create implication mordred_(apocrypha_epilogue)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate)
create implication mordred_(event_portrait)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate)
create implication mordred_(type-moon_racing)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate)
create implication mordred_(camelot_lesson)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate)

Missing implications.

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ouroboros990 Lin ny LuxuryRay ermode
blindVigil

Ylimegirl said:

Aight, again can't say I love having all these tags exist simultaneously especially with the overlap the first two ascensions have, but I have started to populate Mordred (First Ascension) Mordred (Second Ascension) Mordred (Third Ascension), if anyone's curious about what the split's looking like / wants to suggest alternative tagnames / etc.

What I really hate about our Fate tagging travesty is that mordred (second ascension) (fate) is literally just mordred (first ascension) (fate) but without the helmet. In any reasonable world both of those tags would just be covered by the first ascension tag, and then you would just add -helmet if you're really pressed about seeing her face.

But because we're tagging "officially recognized distinct "costumes"", they have to be separate tags. We can't just tag the helmetless version of the outfit as First Ascension because that's not what it is, even though that's the most logically appropriate thing to do in any other situation.

Can we really not just make something like Mordred (first/second ascension) (fate) for situations like this?

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Ylimegirl

Yeah like, I think I said most of my thoughts on the arbitrary distinction in the first post of the thread. I guess we could just use Mordred (fate/apocrypha) for the first two ascensions and then maybe implicate Mordred (third ascension) to that, even though that is by all accounts kinda stupid.

We could make up an alternate qualifier to combine the two, like Mordred (armored) but that's kinda… also not something I love. And it feels weird to have a tag for the third ascension and not the first two when the fanart of the third ascension definitely eclipses the armored fanart by a large margin.

Really the only other thing I can add to this is that her helmet has a name, Secret of Pedigree, that I populated a while ago. If that helps at all (it probably doesn't).

ETA: For those curious, I've finished going through and appropriately tagging the ascensions where applicable. Rest of mordred_(fate/apocrypha) -mordred_(*_ascension)_(fate) should be other unofficial costumes that should've never been given the (Fate/Apocrypha) tag in the first place tbh.

Current counts:
Mordred (First Ascension) - 82
Mordred (Second Ascension) - 443
Mordred (Third Ascension) - 1075
Mordred (Memories at Trifas) - 1296

Which is about what I expected.

Updated by Ylimegirl

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Ylimegirl

BUR #42366 is pending approval.

mass update mordred_(fate/apocrypha) -mordred_(first_ascension)_(fate) -mordred_(second_ascension)_(fate) -mordred_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> -mordred_(fate/apocrypha)
rename mordred_(first_ascension)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate/apocrypha)
create alias mordred_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate/apocrypha)
remove alias mordred_(second_ascension)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate/apocrypha)
create implication mordred_(third_ascension)_(fate) -> mordred_(fate/apocrypha)

Okay, lets try this. Mordred (Fate/Apocrypha) for her servant outfit (cleaning out all depictions of her in other outfits), with Mordred (Third Ascension) (fate) specifically for depictions of her bandeau fit, and merging away the two other stupid ascension tags. If users actually care they can find her first two ascensions via mordred_(fate/apocrypha) -mordred_(third_ascension)_(fate) and her first ascension with mordred_(fate/apocrypha) secret_of_pedigree_(fate), or something along those lines. i sincerely doubt there will be too many instances of users doing that tho

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